Any great leaders?

[Designer]

DF and SJ, I don't compare unlike events or attempt to hindsight a decision. Here's what I have to say on this shooting.
1. She was breaking in
2. Byrd is tasked with protecting the building and personnel inside.
3. This wasn't a street protest
4. I am not in Byrd's shoes and therefore have no reason to believe that he didn't feel under threat.

"Breaking in" is subjective when you have the Capitol police (it's been proven on video) ALLOWING people in, sometimes even SHOWING people how and where to get in.

Good Point there DevilsFan. Seems we have someone who's trying to evade facing another your previous,. well-stated POV.

DF, and you are free to disagree with me, just like you are allowed to see Byrd's actions differently. However you also don't get to say other people are sellouts because they arrived at a different conclusion. I happen to believe that McCarthy is correct, Byrd did his job, and if more had been shot, I would still agree. I'm definitely not second guessing a cop's reaction to what he perceived was happening.

Under what circumstances is it LEGAL and JUSTIFIABLE to shoot an unarmed civilian when there's a wall between the both of you...and you, as a cop, have EVERY METHOD OF RETREAT?

So, according to what you're saying, the other officers had EVERY RIGHT and were TOTALLY JUSTIFIED to shoot every member in the crowd?!?! Afterall, most were unarmed but breaching walls and doorways. Really?

Funny DevilsFan, how when you post your entirely valid conclusions about the Broader Applicability of his "Shooting" POV,....they are being glossed over.

[Tbeck]

Designer I didn't evade anything that DF brought up. It doesn't matter if she was armed or unarmed, she breached the capital building and that alone justified the officer's action's.
Again folk's can arrive at different conclusions for whether Byrd responded appropriate, but I don't second guess. So if she got shot while in the process of breaching the capital, so be it it was a lawful use of force.

[hillsy v2]

Good to know we have the armchair internet Legal Eagles keeping things in check.

[RoadKing]

Last night, during State of The Union, McCarthy displayed far more dignity and decorum than I’ve ever seen from a House Speaker. MHO And…

Marjorie Taylor Greene. If the demented perv can sully his own speech with lies in The House, then Representative MTG has the right to interrupt and call him a liar… precisely what he is.

In her rebuttal, Sarah gave em hell.

[Designer]

.......... It doesn't matter if she was armed or unarmed, she breached the capital building and that alone justified the officer's action's.

So, according to what you're saying, the other officers had EVERY RIGHT and were TOTALLY JUSTIFIED to shoot every member in the crowd?!?! Afterall, most were unarmed but breaching walls and doorways. Really?

Exactly, T. As SJ stated...How was Ashly Babbit, trying to scale a wall, a "life-threatening" situation? If you still believe this was justified then why aren't rioters mowed down with bullets? They're "threatening" by screaming and yelling. Most often they are absent a permit to assemble, so they're on private property without permission. Most are carrying signs, which "could be used" as a deadly weapon. I'm still not seeing how you can justify this.

FORCE CONTINUUM
Level 1 - Officer Presence
Level 2 - Verbal Commands
Level 3 - Empty Hand Control
Level 4 - Pepper Spray, Baton, Taser
Level 5 - Less Lethal
Level 6 - Deadly Force Sorry, T...the shitbag cop that shot Babbit went from Level 2 straight to Level 6...with a freakin' wall between the two!!!

That you double-down on your Trigger-happy, Death-penalty POV after the questions DevilsFan asks and logic he presented in his posts above show,.........proves you are one Very Cold, Violence-loving Sick Suck, Timmy.

[Tbeck]

She wasn't scaling a walk, she was going through the window when she got popped.
Designer, the force continuum is a guideline of POSSIBILITIES, but it isn't a requirement to use all or any. An officer is given great latitude in the force they believe is appropriate. In this case Byrd opt'd for deadly.

For the record you guy's really should look into Ashli a bit more. She was a bit of a fruit loop.

[hillsy v2]

For the record you guy's really should look into Ashli a bit more. She was a bit of a fruit loop.

At the risk of inciting 20 pages of BS by Springy and DF about how the Guardian is bollocks.....

'She was deep into it': Ashli Babbitt, killed in Capitol riot, was devoted conspiracy theorist

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... acy-theory

[sgtcall]

Just for a moment imagine Ashli Babbitt was an unarmed black man in (insert city here) trying to enter a public building by force and Robert Byrd was a white cop. What would have been the results of that situation?

I will state for the record that I do not support anyone that went into the capitol and caused any destruction. At the same time I stand by the fact that it is "The Peoples House" and anyone there that just walked through and took selfies had every right to be there and make their voices heard.

Should Babbitt have been arrested for destruction of public property? Yes
Should Byrd have used better judgement when determining escalation of force? Yes
Should Byrd be charged with at least manslaughter? Yes, just like any cop on the street would have been for the same act.

[hillsy v2]

Just for a moment imagine Ashli Babbitt was an unarmed black man in (insert city here) trying to enter a public building by force and Robert Byrd was a white cop. What would have been the results of that situation?

If the situation and the actions were exactly the same there shouldn't be a difference in the outcome.

[sgtcall]

Just for a moment imagine Ashli Babbitt was an unarmed black man in (insert city here) trying to enter a public building by force and Robert Byrd was a white cop. What would have been the results of that situation?

If the situation and the actions were exactly the same there shouldn't be a difference in the outcome.

Yet there was a huge difference in the outcome. A city cop would have at the very least been suspended and charged pending investigation. Then most likely would have gone to prison and at the least would have lost his job.

[DevilsFan]

Just for a moment imagine Ashli Babbitt was an unarmed black man in (insert city here) trying to enter a public building by force and Robert Byrd was a white cop. What would have been the results of that situation?

If the situation and the actions were exactly the same there shouldn't be a difference in the outcome.

So, let me get this straight so I can no longer call you a sheep...

If one is a "crazy conspiracy theorist" then they deserve to get shot for entering a building.

Wow!


Funny how so many "conspiracy theories" are coming to light (haven't seen you much on the Covid thread...wonder why?) yet these same people that are trying to open up your eyes are what you consider "shootable".

Hillsy, there's no doubt in my mind that if your government told you to lick their asses you'd be on you hands and knees. Get in the boxcar, Hillsy. Your WWII ancestors are rolling in their graves.

[hillsy v2]

Just for a moment imagine Ashli Babbitt was an unarmed black man in (insert city here) trying to enter a public building by force and Robert Byrd was a white cop. What would have been the results of that situation?

If the situation and the actions were exactly the same there shouldn't be a difference in the outcome.

Yet there was a huge difference in the outcome. A city cop would have at the very least been suspended and charged pending investigation. Then most likely would have gone to prison and at the least would have lost his job.

What are you comparing this to?

[hillsy v2]

Just for a moment imagine Ashli Babbitt was an unarmed black man in (insert city here) trying to enter a public building by force and Robert Byrd was a white cop. What would have been the results of that situation?

If the situation and the actions were exactly the same there shouldn't be a difference in the outcome.

So, let me get this straight so I can no longer call you a sheep...

If one is a "crazy conspiracy theorist" then they deserve to get shot for entering a building.

Wow!


Funny how so many "conspiracy theories" are coming to light (haven't seen you much on the Covid thread...wonder why?) yet these same people that are trying to open up your eyes are what you consider "shootable".

Hillsy, there's no doubt in my mind that if your government told you to lick their asses you'd be on you hands and knees. Get in the boxcar, Hillsy. Your WWII ancestors are rolling in their graves.

Here we go with the vivid imagination shit again....

Is this you, DF?

[sgtcall]

Just for a moment imagine Ashli Babbitt was an unarmed black man in (insert city here) trying to enter a public building by force and Robert Byrd was a white cop. What would have been the results of that situation?

If the situation and the actions were exactly the same there shouldn't be a difference in the outcome.

Yet there was a huge difference in the outcome. A city cop would have at the very least been suspended and charged pending investigation. Then most likely would have gone to prison and at the least would have lost his job.

What are you comparing this to?

Basically every recent shooting that involved an unarmed criminal and a cop. Simple fact Byrd got off easy with a short investigation by his own department, normally the state Bureau of Investigation or the DA would conduct this, and anyone that watched that shooting could tell that he did not follow protocol. I got it, he panicked and fucked up because he's a giant wuss but he should have at least gotten fired.

[hillsy v2]

Basically every recent shooting that involved an unarmed criminal and a cop. Simple fact Byrd got off easy with a short investigation by his own department, normally the state Bureau of Investigation or the DA would conduct this, and anyone that watched that shooting could tell that he did not follow protocol. I got it, he panicked and fucked up because he's a giant wuss but he should have at least gotten fired.

This was kind of a unique situation, don't you think?

And as far as the investigation goes?...

Following the routine process for shootings by Capitol Police officers, the Metropolitan Police Department of the District of Columbia and the United States Department of Justice investigated Babbitt's death and made a determination that the shooting was "lawful and within Department policy". Upon clearing Byrd, USCP released a press statement saying his action "potentially saved Members and staff from serious injury and possible death".

Is that just spin?

[sgtcall]

Basically every recent shooting that involved an unarmed criminal and a cop. Simple fact Byrd got off easy with a short investigation by his own department, normally the state Bureau of Investigation or the DA would conduct this, and anyone that watched that shooting could tell that he did not follow protocol. I got it, he panicked and fucked up because he's a giant wuss but he should have at least gotten fired.

This was kind of a unique situation, don't you think?

And as far as the investigation goes?...

Following the routine process for shootings by Capitol Police officers, the Metropolitan Police Department of the District of Columbia and the United States Department of Justice investigated Babbitt's death and made a determination that the shooting was "lawful and within Department policy". Upon clearing Byrd, USCP released a press statement saying his action "potentially saved Members and staff from serious injury and possible death".

Is that just spin?

Yes. The DOJ should never have been involved and the Capitol Police are part of the Metropolitan Police Department.

[hillsy v2]

By the way - 6 capitol police officers were suspended and dozens more were under investigation for their actions on Jan 6.....

https://www.npr.org/sections/insurrecti ... itol-riots

[DevilsFan]

There's still 1400 hours of video that's going to be released that the democrats...and ONLY THE DEMOCRATS...refused to allow the public to view.

We've already seen some tiny clips of Capitol Police actually REMOVING barriers to ALLOW protestors to enter, OPENING SECURE DOORS so protestors can get in and ACTUALLY DIRECTING PROTESTORS on where to go to enter the Capitol.

I can only imagine what lies withing the other 1400 hours of footage.


***Also...how can we have the ability to read a Coca-Cola can from outer space...but we STILL haven't found who the Capitol bomber was.

[hillsy v2]

I can only imagine what lies withing the other 1400 hours of footage.

[Designer]

Designer, the force continuum is a guideline of POSSIBILITIES, but it isn't a requirement to use all or any........ An officer is given great latitude in the force they believe is appropriate. In this case Byrd opt'd for deadly.

And Byrd WAS WRONG in doing so ......Just as YOU ARE WRONG in advocating him using such Murderous Deadly Force.

Your POV of his escalation to DEADLY FORCE is Sofa King wrong,....and much to your chagrin,...the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY HERE say so.

Funny how you are deflecting away from the other entirely VALID points that DevilsFan mentioned. Why are you doing that?

Here,...I'll help you out;

.......... It doesn't matter if she was armed or unarmed, she breached the capital building and that alone justified the officer's action's.

So, according to what you're saying, the other officers had EVERY RIGHT and were TOTALLY JUSTIFIED to shoot every member in the crowd?!?! Afterall, most were unarmed but breaching walls and doorways. Really?

Exactly, T. As SJ stated...How was Ashly Babbit, trying to scale a wall, a "life-threatening" situation? If you still believe this was justified then why aren't rioters mowed down with bullets? They're "threatening" by screaming and yelling. Most often they are absent a permit to assemble, so they're on private property without permission. Most are carrying signs, which "could be used" as a deadly weapon. I'm still not seeing how you can justify this.

....For the record you guy's really should look into Ashli a bit more. She was a bit of a fruit loop.

You have GOT to be kidding us! You stoop to Personal Attack on Ashli,...when she's in HER GRAVE?

So tell us,...even if your "opinion" has any merit,..what does that have to do with her being Shot to Death?