Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Sundevil36
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Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Sundevil36 »

Hi all, just picked up a 1400 last week and this weekend is the first I've been able to work on it.

It has 6100 miles, it will start alright but idles a bit weak? and then sputters out after about 5-10 seconds at most. Sounds like it is just not getting enough fuel. Took some of it apart yesterday and the air intake was clean, the carbs didn't look dirty but there was a good amount of fuel left in the carb bowl when I gently blew some air in the carb vent line. I am thinking stuck float valve or the fuel pump is not pumping anything, am going to check the resistance and voltage now per the manual specs. wanted to post here in case other ideas were floating around.

Thank you!

navigator
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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by navigator »

Adjust the idle with the thumbscrew on the rear carb.
you don't want a low idle, raise it to ~1000 rpm.

Sundevil36
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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Sundevil36 »

The idle set screw is all the way in, meaning the idle is already set high unless I'm mistaken. If it's any lower it won't start at all.

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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by navigator »

Be sure it is running on both cylinders, pull one plug wire at a time.
If it is only running on the rear, your carbs may need to be synced.

Sundevil36
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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Sundevil36 »

I'll try that next. If it was only on one cylinder, would it start and then die with any throttle at all?

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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by navigator »

possibly.

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Herb
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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Herb »

If the sync is improperly done it is possible to have the idle turned all the way in and still have a low idle.

It is also possible for it to have this issue if the idle air screw is set too rich.
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Sundevil36
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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Sundevil36 »

So, I found that the battery was a bit more toast than I was led to believe. Am replacing that now. Also found that the spark plugs were DPR8EA-9's which means they are resistor type, and I read in another thread that there is not supposed to be a resistor in there. Might explain the weak spark, slightly fouled plugs, and the no start condition. Haven't verified yet.

Also pulled the clutch kill switch out and left it slid to the "in" position.

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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by navigator »

The bikes are very battery dependent, and a weak one will give you grief.
DPR8EA-9 is the correct plug...it should be a resistor type.

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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Lechy »

If your plug cap is like this:
Image

The correct plug is DP8EA9. If not you should use DPR8EA9 either plug will work so don't be getting all wadded up about plug choice.

When you turn on the ignition, pull in the clutch, you should hear the fuel pump, if not by pass the hot wire to one of the orange/white wires on one of the coils if it still doesn't work you probably need to replace it, but first try removing the cover and clean the trip contacts.
A quick synck check is to part the cable splitter on the front airbox and see if the 2 cables going to the carbs are at equal lengths, you will need to pull the cable out of the twistgriip to do this.

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Sundevil36
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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Sundevil36 »

You mean the cap that connects to the top of the spark plug? yeah mine doesn't look like that at all. looks like a standard spark plug wire cap. But why would the manual specify one type of spark plug if it didn't matter?

I don't hear anything priming after I turn on the ignition, I only hear a buzzing rattle when I push the starter button. should there be voltage at the pump when I press the ignition switch? I forgot to check that but the battery was also toast. ill try again tomorrow when I'm back with the bike, and try bypassing the hot wire. but I think I'll probably need a walkthrough on that.

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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Lechy »

Either plug will make a spark, but if you run resistor plugs in a resistor cap you are effectively reducing the power of the spark by 50%. If you run non resistor plugs in a non resistor cap you will have far more powerful spark but, the plug will wear out very quickly and all your neighbors will be pissed at you because of the interference on their radio's, TV's and Wi Fi connections.
When you press the start, hold the fuel pump, it should pulse quickly to start with then slow down and stop when the carb bowls are full. if all it does is vibrate, pull the cap off and check/clean the contacts.

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Herb
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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Herb »

Lechy wrote:Either plug will make a spark, but if you run resistor plugs in a resistor cap you are effectively reducing the power of the spark by 50%. If you run non resistor plugs in a non resistor cap you will have far more powerful spark but, the plug will wear out very quickly and all your neighbors will be pissed at you because of the interference on their radio's, TV's and Wi Fi connections.
When you press the start, hold the fuel pump, it should pulse quickly to start with then slow down and stop when the carb bowls are full. if all it does is vibrate, pull the cap off and check/clean the contacts.

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These bikes were designed to run with both the resistor plug and the resistor in the cap. They work well when new. My 99 has over 200,000 miles on the bike itself. I have no issue with the ignition system and it is all original.

I did enlarge the battery box and install a larger battery.

Yesterday the temp was 27 degrees here, went out and started the bike. It was a little hard starting but it started. Still has the original plug caps and resistor plugs.
I can't seem to win the lottery. I think I have used up all of my good luck riding motorcycles.

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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Lechy »

I=E/R work it out yourself.
If you have resistor caps and resistor pugs, try fitting non resistor plugs to give more oomph at the plug tip to help with cold starts.

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Herb
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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Herb »

Lechy wrote:I=E/R work it out yourself.
If you have resistor caps and resistor pugs, try fitting non resistor plugs to give more oomph at the plug tip to help with cold starts.

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The system was designed to work with resistor plugs and plug caps. If it isn't working properly, there is something wrong. While using non-resistor plugs and/or non-resistor caps MAY help, it will only be masking the real problem.

As I said, my 99 still has all of the original ignition system, starts and runs fine.

Here is a complete explanation of the reasons for the resistor systems. It is a little bit long, but well worth the read

http://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/plugwiretech.html

The main issue with our bikes is the chance that using non-resistor components can cause damage to other parts of the ignition system.
I can't seem to win the lottery. I think I have used up all of my good luck riding motorcycles.

Sundevil36
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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Sundevil36 »

Well that means that someone redid the whole ignition system within the 6k miles it's been on the road? Seems unlikely but I suppose possible.

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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Lechy »

Interesting read Herb, but all it suggests to me is that the use of double resistance is a belt and braces exercise which in today's world is not a bad idea. It could also be an EPI import regulation, they love overkill. Ask yourself why the AF settings from new are way weak and the adjuster screws were plugged off. Another thing to consider with the resistor caps is corrosion on the mating surfaces of the spring and resistor, this could also create a very high resistance point thereby decreasing the efficiency of the spark.
I am not saying that this is the OP's problem but just one avenue to explore.

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Fred
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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Fred »

Lechy wrote:I=E/R work it out yourself.
If you have resistor caps and resistor pugs, try fitting non resistor plugs to give more oomph at the plug tip to help with cold starts.

[emoji41]
Yeah well not relative with 25,000volts + and .5 amp.

The resistors are more for radio interference as is the carbon HT leads --high tension-

The plug lead on the front must be a meter long and the rear maybe a foot, makes you think.

The resistor keeps back the voltage until it jumps a clean jump. If not it starts jumping way down at low voltage which is not clean. just holding back cleans it up like the capacitor( condenser) on a point contact system.

You will not notice any difference in performance or starting but your next door neighbours TV will and your sensative onboard engine management, --Oh they don't have one do they.

Sundevil36
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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Sundevil36 »

Replaced the battery, it started nearly immediately but still died after 2-5 seconds. Progress. I held the fuel pump and it did pulse at start then stop, bike chugged for a second then died. I ran it on one cylinder at a time and I believe the front cylinder just isn't getting enough gas, it chugged but would not turn all the way over on its own. The rear cylinder started right up but chugged and died.

I pulled the throttle cable out of the twist grip, and as far as I can tell when I pull the cable out and slowly let it back in, when I hear it hit the stopper on the upper carb there is a huge amount of slack left in the lower throttle roller before it hits the closed position. Should I try to adjust that lower cable position?

Thank you all, I feel like I'm almost there!!

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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Lechy »

Easy way to get the synch into the ballpark is to remove the throttle cable from the twist grip, remove the tank, locate the cable splitter usually on the front airbox, Use a knife to separate the 2 haves of the splitter. Pull on the cables to take out the slack and make adjustments at the front carb, forward adjuster to get them level. This should get you going enough to do a correct synch.
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