Well... this is not good.

Keep it civil
Tbeck
Joined a 1200cc Club
Posts: 7607
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:58 am
My Bike: Concours 1400

Re: Well... this is not good.

Post by Tbeck »

Actually I have yet to read of anyone on this board replacing their brake hose's so lot's of smack.
ABS brake systems need flushed at 1 year and every 2 there after. Most brake systems of the non-abs every 2 year's. Now how many here REALLY do it? Maybe HD should put speed bleeders on all bikes and/or make it part of their annual service which it isn't.
Jeffco, actually the moisture doesn't get drawn in, it is created from within. It's caused via the heating and cooling from brake application.

Lastly, how many of you changed your bikes fluid's before parking it for the winter? How many are waiting for spring to do it? Before parking is the correct time so your internal bearings aren't bathing all winter in acid.

old time rider
Back on the Road
Posts: 3565
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:07 pm
My Bike: 650Vstrom

Re: Well... this is not good.

Post by old time rider »

Non use even more so in big temp changes is hard on them. Bought two old bikes that had sat over five years. On both brakes took a few times of bleed and clean to work right again.My ABS Vstrom is still good at over five years old and 62,000 but is rode real often.My non ABS Nomad went over 82,000 with one brake bleed at 40,000 and was like new. It never sat over a few days as less than four years old when I sold it.... :putput:

jeffcoslacker
Back on the Road
Posts: 3650
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:13 am
My Bike: Kugelblitz-Kriegshammer 2200

Re: Well... this is not good.

Post by jeffcoslacker »

Tbeck wrote:Actually I have yet to read of anyone on this board replacing their brake hose's so lot's of smack.
ABS brake systems need flushed at 1 year and every 2 there after. Most brake systems of the non-abs every 2 year's. Now how many here REALLY do it? Maybe HD should put speed bleeders on all bikes and/or make it part of their annual service which it isn't.
Jeffco, actually the moisture doesn't get drawn in, it is created from within. It's caused via the heating and cooling from brake application.

Lastly, how many of you changed your bikes fluid's before parking it for the winter? How many are waiting for spring to do it? Before parking is the correct time so your internal bearings aren't bathing all winter in acid.
No, it's drawn in. Heat cycling is what causes this to happen, but has nothing to do with "creation" of moisture. Brake fluid doesn't contain moisture. But it does have an affinity for it.

The moisture is drawn in along with the air pulled into the system each time the fluid cools down. If the system were perfectly air-tight, the pressure developed in the dead air space of the master cylinder would become a problem as the fluid expanded with use.

That's why they typically have that rubber bladder on the underside of the cap, which allows air to come in BETWEEN the cap and fluid, minimizing fluid exposure to moisture contained in that air. Of course it also functions as a damper when the user lets the fluid level get too low, some are designed with pleats so the rubber can extend down into the reservoir somewhat as the fluid level gets lower, helping to keep the fluid in place over the ports to minimize the chances of a dry port, which leads to brake failure.

Also they will all draw in a small amount (VERY) by way of thermal/pressure cycling by way of the seals in wheel cylinders and calipers. It's damn little, but gets worse as the components age. About the only downside to a stroking seal design in a caliper is that by design it can expose the sealed area of the piston to a small amount of dirt and moisture each time it flexes...which is why keeping those boots seated when pushing pistons to change pads is so critical.

Anyway, with regard to the other sealing components, like wheel cylinder seals, when the system cools and the fluid contracts, the only two avenues to correct the displacement available are to try to pull fluid through the whole system from all the way up at the master cylinder reservoir. This actually creates a fair amount of low pressure at the seals out at the wheels, and generally ambient moisture in the air has condensed on those pistons and if there is even very small defects in those seals they will pull it in as things cool. There is another issue with wheel cylinders in particular that causes moisture drawing around seals that has to do with weak seals in conjunction with weak brake shoe return springs, but it's pretty complicated to explain and the upshot is simply that worn parts exacerbate the problem, even when not directly involved in fluid sealing...

RoadKing
Joined a 1100cc Club
Posts: 6577
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:27 pm
My Bike: Road King

Re: Well... this is not good.

Post by RoadKing »

2008-2011. If this is really the intellectual exercise that it appears then I suggest finding out what was peculiar about those years that when dipshits don’t do required maintenance deposits collect. Why not other years? Every year bike needs proper scheduled maintenance per factory specs or safety is compromised... SO WHY JUST THOSE YEARS? I read the IP several times and the whole thing sounds stupid as worded. US safety regulators. What a crock.

The King is 2013, no problems at all. And yes, clean fresh fluids before Winter. No corn treated 93 proof gas in the tank and on battery life support. Everybody I know around here does the same. So what’s the BFD? Harley only concerned about 2008-2011 that aren’t maintained but not others? Bullshit story stinks. Factory is not even responsible for bikes that are not taken care of according to factory specs no matter what years manufactured.
“Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more.
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury…
Signifying nothing”

Signifying monkey, stay up in your tree. Always lying and signifying, but you better not monkey with me.

jeffcoslacker
Back on the Road
Posts: 3650
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:13 am
My Bike: Kugelblitz-Kriegshammer 2200

Re: Well... this is not good.

Post by jeffcoslacker »

RoadKing wrote: SO WHY JUST THOSE YEARS?
I haven't read it, but if I had to make a wild guess I'd think maybe something to do with either the design or the materials used in the ABS units at that time. some alloys are more prone to corrosion, some designs can facilitate collection of debris/rust in critical spots, etc.

User avatar
Fred
WHEELIES R FUN!
Posts: 4527
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:08 am
My Bike: VS 1400. Royal Enfield

Re: Well... this is not good.

Post by Fred »

Brake fluid is mostly alcohol and it absorbs moisture --its called hydroscopic.

Thats why you have a rubber seal on your master cylinder to keep atmosphere air contaminating it.

User avatar
MadCow
Site Admin
Posts: 6281
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:36 pm
My Bike: 2023 Pan America Special

Re: Well... this is not good.

Post by MadCow »

Fred wrote:Brake fluid is mostly alcohol and it absorbs moisture --its called hydroscopic.

Thats why you have a rubber seal on your master cylinder to keep atmosphere air contaminating it.
Nah, it's hygroscopic.
-DBTO

RoadKing
Joined a 1100cc Club
Posts: 6577
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:27 pm
My Bike: Road King

Re: Well... this is not good.

Post by RoadKing »

jeffcoslacker wrote:
RoadKing wrote: SO WHY JUST THOSE YEARS?
I haven't read it, but if I had to make a wild guess I'd think maybe something to do with either the design or the materials used in the ABS units at that time. some alloys are more prone to corrosion, some designs can facilitate collection of debris/rust in critical spots, etc.
Yes, Jeffco, i understand the mechanical specifics but I ask again, why is owner negligence only a concern for 2008-2011 years? Read BatMan’s IP... a recall for deposits that may occur after two year maintenance is ignored by owner? Huh? That sounds questionable and stupid. Factory is not responsible for any year bike if owner is to blame.
“Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more.
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury…
Signifying nothing”

Signifying monkey, stay up in your tree. Always lying and signifying, but you better not monkey with me.

navigator
Joined a 1100cc Club
Posts: 5431
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:33 pm
My Bike: VS800

Re: Well... this is not good.

Post by navigator »

MadCow wrote:
Fred wrote:Brake fluid is mostly alcohol and it absorbs moisture --its called hydroscopic.

Thats why you have a rubber seal on your master cylinder to keep atmosphere air contaminating it.
Nah, it's hygroscopic.
Fred was looking under water.

User avatar
MadCow
Site Admin
Posts: 6281
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:36 pm
My Bike: 2023 Pan America Special

Re: Well... this is not good.

Post by MadCow »

navigator wrote:
MadCow wrote:
Fred wrote:Brake fluid is mostly alcohol and it absorbs moisture --its called hydroscopic.

Thats why you have a rubber seal on your master cylinder to keep atmosphere air contaminating it.
Nah, it's hygroscopic.
Fred was looking under water.

Evidently... :rock:
-DBTO

HARRIS
FLAT TIRE!
Posts: 3995
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:59 am
My Bike: VS 800- HONDA VALKYRIE- MAGNA
Contact:

Re: Well... this is not good.

Post by HARRIS »

IT ONLY MATTERS IF YOU PLAN TO STOP, ONCE ...
Luck & Experience:
You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck

User avatar
Elsie rider
Riding on Learners Permit
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:24 am
My Bike: HD Triglide
Location: Millstadt IL 10 miles SE of St. Louis i

Re: Well... this is not good.

Post by Elsie rider »

I got my recall letter yesterday, it even states in the letter if you have not had fluid change per regular maintenance schedule.

we had to fight tooth and nail to get them to force Suzuki to do a recall on the gas tanks on the LC. even then you had to take them in , they did not send a letter. Some even had horror stories of the dealer keeping the bikes because they said they were unsafe when the flunked the pressure test....know they had no gas tanks and not knowing when they would get some in .


I change my brake and clutch fluid per maintenance schedule or sooner...

Post Reply