"The owner's responsibility"?

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"The owner's responsibility"?

Post by jeffcoslacker »

I don't like this story. I'm totally pro-cop, but if you came in my yard and then shot my dog, and then the department told me it's my problem...buddy, we're gonna go round and round. :fubird:

http://www.ky3.com/content/news/Search- ... 38103.html



TANEY COUNTY, Mo. -- The Taney County Sheriff's Department reports deputies captured a man involved in a high-speed chase Monday night. The chase turned into much more for deputies.

Deputies say they arrested David Hensley, 38, of Branson in that area Tuesday morning.

A couple says they are upset after a Taney County deputy shot their dog in a fenced area while searching for the suspect. The dog, named Romeo, is being treated at the Emergency Veterinary Clinic on Glenstone in Springfield. While Romeo is expected to survive, his leg will likely be amputated.

The ordeal started with a chase around 9:48 a.m. after deputies attempted to stop a vehicle on H Highway north of Forsyth. The driver refused to stop and headed north into Christian County. At one point, the Missouri State Highway Patrol placed spike strips across a road to puncture the tires, but the driver managed to keep going and rammed two patrol cars in the process. He hit the second patrol car head-on on a narrow road; neither vehicle was going fast, so there was only minor damage. The driver then took off on foot. Officers arrested two others inside the car, according to a statement from the sheriff's office.

Around 5 p.m. on Monday, officers were searching for the driver involved in the pursuit. They were looking for him in the area of M Highway and Highway 160.

It's the same area where the dog's owner Michael James and his wife live. James said he didn't know the deputies were on his property when he let his three dogs out in his fenced yard.

"As soon as I walked around the corner it was 'bang, bang.' And, I mean, with my military instinct the first thing I did was hit the ground, and I heard a whiz. And then I noticed the dog limp because I seen him when I was standing and I noticed the dog limping, and I said 'you shot my dog.' "

The sheriff's office said they believe James wasn't aware deputies were on his property searching; however, they went on to state the deputy shot the dog because the officer feared for his safety.

The Jameses just got Romeo a few months ago to help Michael, who did three tours in Afghanistan, cope with PTSD. They said Romeo is a service dog that sleeps on Micheal's legs at night to make sure his owner doesn't fall out of bed.

Michael said he was shocked deputies never let him know they were searching for a man on his property. He believes the department didn't follow proper protocol.

The vet bill will likely be more than $1,000. Michael and his wife believe the sheriff's department should pay for the dog's recovery, but the couple said they were told it's the owner's responsibility.

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Re: "The owner's responsibility"?

Post by DevilsFan »

Call every media outlet, PETA, and all the animal rescues to get this story out! And get a really good lawyer to sue the PD.

Don't EVER fuck with my pups! :hellfire:
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Re: "The owner's responsibility"?

Post by RoadKing »

Bummer story.
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury…
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Re: "The owner's responsibility"?

Post by Tbeck »

They'll be paying the bills. It's a service dog and the cop's were not legally on his property. There's no end of lawyers lining up to take this case for free.

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Re: "The owner's responsibility"?

Post by jeffcoslacker »

I may have been a little quick to judge. Sometimes they like to use subtle omissions to get you fired up. They may be doing this here. They actually didn't say the police dept said it's their responsibility, it says they were told that.

By whom? I used to know how to read an article critically for misleads, but I've gotten lazy. could be this:

Animal hospital "And how will you be paying?"

Owner "Send the bill to Taney County, they shot him..."

Animal hospital "We can't do that sir, it's the owner's responsibility to pay for services, you'll have to take that up with the county if they are responsible. I'm sorry..."

I could see this. I too imagine Taney Co will be paying this, and possibly more...

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Re: "The owner's responsibility"?

Post by RoadKing »

A combat vet and his dog. So freaking sad. Did the cop even show sadness and remorse?
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury…
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Re: "The owner's responsibility"?

Post by jeffcoslacker »

RoadKing wrote:A combat vet and his dog. So freaking sad. Did the cop even show sadness and remorse?
Well in today's world, I'd imagine that cops who feel they need to take actions like this are probably under the same constraints as why your car insurance card has those tips on the back that tell you not to admit fault or make statements like "I'm sorry" regardless of fault. Because it opens up a nice path to say you admit blame when the investigation happens. It sucks that you can't be human about things without getting steamrollered, but there it is. :donno:

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Re: "The owner's responsibility"?

Post by SuzyRidr2 »

The sheriff's office said they believe James wasn't aware deputies were on his property searching; however, they went on to state the deputy shot the dog because the officer feared for his safety.
I always thought the standard for using deadly force was fearing for one's life. Fearing for one's safety sounds like a much lower bar to me. [space] :confused:
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Re: "The owner's responsibility"?

Post by Herb »

SuzyRidr2 wrote:
The sheriff's office said they believe James wasn't aware deputies were on his property searching; however, they went on to state the deputy shot the dog because the officer feared for his safety.
I always thought the standard for using deadly force was fearing for one's life. Fearing for one's safety sounds like a much lower bar to me. [space] :confused:
Most states say "fear of death or serious bodily injury".
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Re: "The owner's responsibility"?

Post by RoadKing »

In other words, an arbitrary cop decision that could cause me to lose one of my beautiful friends simply because they were doing what dogs do, barking. And it would be my fault (responsibility). I’ve had enough fucking loss, cop, you might as well just shoot me, too, if it’s all that easy for you, business as usual, cut and dry. Kill my family and then go home to yours as though nothing ever happened. In my old age I love dogs and harbor little for humans but disdain.
“Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more.
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury…
Signifying nothing”

Signifying monkey, stay up in your tree. Always lying and signifying, but you better not monkey with me.

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Re: "The owner's responsibility"?

Post by DevilsFan »

RoadKing wrote:In other words, an arbitrary cop decision that could cause me to lose one of my beautiful friends simply because they were doing what dogs do, barking. And it would be my fault (responsibility). I’ve had enough fucking loss, cop, you might as well just shoot me, too, if it’s all that easy for you, business as usual, cut and dry. Kill my family and then go home to yours as though nothing ever happened. In my old age I love dogs and harbor little for humans but disdain.

Well put, RK!
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Re: "The owner's responsibility"?

Post by Tbeck »

I am just going to say it...there have been a rash of cop shooting dog's nationally and we won't even mention the shooting of people under questionable circumstances.
Now anyone who knows me knows that I generally give the cops the benefit of doubt, but I think that either the certification or training programs have gone wrong.
I know of two cops that should not be. One failed the psychiatric interview and if you met him you'd know why. The other was quietly dismissed from a municipal police job for shooting at a car that drove off during a routine traffic stop. He's now a cop in another city because nothing administratively was recorded for the shooting, dusted under the carpet.
We won't even mention that each department writes it's own taser use policy, which most allow use to apprehension. They are "less" than deadly use "weapons" not a tool for apprehension. In other words they should only be used in a situation in which deadly force would be applicable.
Train cop's to shoot first and these reports are what we will see more of.

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Re: "The owner's responsibility"?

Post by lonerider »

First of all, a cop doesn't need permission to be on private property if he's in hot pursuit of a suspect.

Secondly, a cop has a little more discretion to use deadly force than a private citizen. A leo in hand to hand combat with an unarmed suspect can lose his life if the suspect gains control over his weapons.

Third, in the case of a dog getting shot, that's a real shame, but if the cop can't use his weapon when he's under attack he is at a real disadvantage. Yes, the dog is only doing what is normal for a dog (protecting his territory), but the cop is also doing what he should be doing, namely, chasing and apprehending suspects.

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Re: "The owner's responsibility"?

Post by JFL Live »

I'm glad the dog will live. Cop must be a bad shot.
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Re: "The owner's responsibility"?

Post by jeffcoslacker »

A little more that puts some more perspective on it, from both POV's...

The couple said they were coming home and passed by police on the street, it sounds like they had set up a perimeter. They were not in "hot pursuit" of the suspect at the time, which I think is going to be a critical point here...they were just combing the area looking for him. Actively chasing a dangerous suspect into your yard when they enter carries more weight than just going into my private property poking around to flush him.

OK so since they see the police activity near their home, he lets the dogs (three pit bulls, if that's pertinent) out and goes out to check his property to see if everything is secure. Now I don't have a pic in my head of the setup of the property, but apparently there's an unoccupied or abandoned house/structure that sits on his fenceline, and it sounds like it's not visible from his back door where he let the dogs out.

So as the cop(s) were exiting the rear door of that place, that put them actually inside the fenced yard of this guy (shares a fence apparently) and that's when the dog(s) came at him.

Convoluted as it is, it does make things clearer. There's a lotta properties like that around the area, kind of a mix of structures used and unused, with fencelines that don't always make any sense except to the people who use it.

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Re: "The owner's responsibility"?

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Re: "The owner's responsibility"?

Post by RoadKing »

My dogs are my family. With that in mind, allow me to present another horrible possibility. I have a spacious fenced back yard, trees, a barn in the corner, very dark even during full moon. If anyone at all comes into my property for any reason and my dogs raise a serious ruckus, I always let them out and I’m with them armed. If they corner someone between the barn and corner fencing and that someone starts shooting? IM GOING TO PROTECT MY FAMILY! Worst case scenario per this thread... the lifeless body in the corner wears a badge and both of my beautiful dogs are lifeless. You know what? I’m glad a few of you are able to be witty about this, but this does not make me angry, it makes me very sad and fearful for my dogs... and for myself... and for that dead uniformed human who made a very bad choice no matter what authority he claimed.
“Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more.
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury…
Signifying nothing”

Signifying monkey, stay up in your tree. Always lying and signifying, but you better not monkey with me.

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Re: "The owner's responsibility"?

Post by Tbeck »

lone, the cop wasn't in hot pursuit, and the dog never attacked.
In this instance like so many we see plastered across the news, a cop shot a dog and that's just piss poor training and accountability.
Look around the web, this is a issue that's gotten way out of hand.

And don't even give me "if the perp" argument. If a cop gets overpowered by the perp, he needs better training. So thanks, you made my point, piss poor training and evaluation of officer's.

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Re: "The owner's responsibility"?

Post by SuzyRidr2 »

Tbeck wrote:I am just going to say it...there have been a rash of cop shooting dog's nationally and we won't even mention the shooting of people under questionable circumstances.
I'll mention it. Police may be shooting 400-500 unarmed people annually. I've felt for a long time that "use of force" training and policy needed to be looked at. Okay, full disclosure, a precise number is not known because no one agency tracks and reports such a number, but I've read books by reputable attorneys who've complied statistics from various sources who place the figure there. It's a believable number. We see them in the news often enough.

It seems to me that "He appeared to be reaching for a weapon" and "I feared that my life was in jeaopardy" is all that's needed to exonerate any officer in any situation when being looked at for questionable use of deadly force. This is typically the answer, delivered along with a good dose of " officer safety is paramount", in these cases. This isn't a rant against police officers. I have had a few police officers in my family and I am aware of the tough job they have. I do believe use of deadly force training and policies need to be revisited though and I believe law enforcement (or some government agency) needs to educate the general public on the topic.

The public needs to be able to see this encounter from a police officer's stand point. I don't believe for a minute that the general public fully understands how quickly inappropriate actions and behavior on their part during an encounter with a police officer can send things south and put their lives in jeopardy. I believe this ignorance or lack of appreciation for the law officer's situation is a big part of the problem. I also believe they've been trained to respond with deadly force first and sort it out later.
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Re: "The owner's responsibility"?

Post by lonerider »

SuzyRidr2 wrote:
Tbeck wrote:I am just going to say it...there have been a rash of cop shooting dog's nationally and we won't even mention the shooting of people under questionable circumstances.
... Police may be shooting 400-500 unarmed people annually. I've felt for a long time that "use of force" training and policy needed to be looked at. ...
Hearing of a police shooting of an unarmed individual invariably provokes the question of whether or not it was necessary. After all, the police are armed and the citizen is unarmed and it sounds like an unfair encounter and should have been handled differently, right?

Well, consider the fact that if a citizen fully cooperates with the police by obeying all lawful orders and is courteous and polite, then the vast majority of all encounters will be safe and non-eventful. But if a citizen resists, doesn't follow commands, has a bad attitude, and in general gives the cop a hard time, then the cop has to apply force to make the subject comply. If that force leads to a hands on struggle, what choice does the cop have but to keep his weapons under control and do what it takes to get the upper hand on the individual. If that leads to a shooting, my opinion is that it had to be done and I place the blame on the individual who brought it upon himself. Too bad, too sad. Another dumbass who got shot unnecessarily.

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