Anyone want to take a shot at this question.?????

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TEKE
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Re: Anyone want to take a shot at this question.?????

Post by TEKE »

Suzuki Johnny wrote:
TEKE wrote:They were an issue during the Obama administration and during Bush, memories are short I guess when it fits an agenda. Also, as far as the confederate flag goes, it never became a symbol of "confederate pride" until civil rights and the de-segregation movement, so lets not bullshit each other about what those flying it are really trying to say. Just my .02.





Evidently you were not brought up in the deep south ..
The flag we fly is a battle flag and is not the flag of the confederacy


Image


Just my .02

Nope, I wasn't brought up in the "deep South", why does that matter "YOU LOST"!! You surrendered!!! More people in this country fought for a different ideal than the other. One thing has nothing to do with the other. I HONOR ALL American vets. I don't distinguish between those who fought for states rights versus supporting slavery. I am just saying those who support display of the battle flag today are disingenuous, do you really think people are that stupid to not see the difference???

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Re: Anyone want to take a shot at this question.?????

Post by Suzuki Johnny »

To start with "I" didn't lose.....The southern Confederate Army of Virginia did and it makes a world of difference if you were breed, born and raised in the deep south.....funny you should mention that southerners just started flying that battle flag...Nope...Wrong again...I grew up with those same battle flags flying in several front yards in my neighborhood.....and we were proud to have it on display..
and I do take offence to be called disingenuous..
Having served Uncle Sam with several different races introduced me to getting along with everybody...best thing to ever happen to this ole southern Cajun......

And as far as the South losing the Confederate Civil War...please keep in mind that decision to surrender was made by one person.....there was still plenty of fight left on the southern side.....but I am glad that Lee made that decision to stop...and it is part of American History..

Not all those on the Southern side were slave owners or even land owners for that matter at the time...
..and they were fighting for states rights and not the abolition of slavery...The had no dog in that fight


And that's what this is all about "History" and a segment of the nation want to erase that History....but to what means.....since they themselves caused all the misery associated with this debacle that's going on now..

Is this the what the liberal left want to replace History with???????? This kind of statue is offensive to me considering what's going on right now

Image
Image



http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-1 ... de-are-you

Pat Buchanan Asks "In This Second American Civil War - Whose Side Are You On?"

Authored by Patrick Buchanan via Townhall.com,

"They had found a leader, Robert E. Lee -- and what a leader! ... No military leader since Napoleon has aroused such enthusiastic devotion among troops as did Lee when he reviewed them on his horse Traveller."
So wrote Samuel Eliot Morison in his magisterial "The Oxford History of the American People" in 1965.
First in his class at West Point, hero of the Mexican War, Lee was the man to whom President Lincoln turned to lead his army. But when Virginia seceded, Lee would not lift up his sword against his own people, and chose to defend his home state rather than wage war upon her.
This veneration of Lee, wrote Richard Weaver, "appears in the saying attributed to a Confederate soldier, 'The rest of us may have ... descended from monkeys, but it took a God to make Marse Robert.'"
Growing up after World War II, this was accepted history.

Yet, on the militant left today, the name Lee evokes raw hatred and howls of "racist and traitor." A clamor has arisen to have all statues of him and all Confederate soldiers and statesmen pulled down from their pedestals and put in museums or tossed onto trash piles.
What has changed since 1965?
It is not history. There have been no great new discoveries about Lee.

What has changed is America herself. She is not the same country. We have passed through a great social, cultural and moral revolution that has left us irretrievably divided on separate shores.
And the politicians are in panic.

Two years ago, Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe called the giant statues of Lee and "Stonewall" Jackson on Richmond's Monument Avenue "parts of our heritage."
After Charlottesville, New York-born-and-bred McAuliffe, entertaining higher ambitions, went full scalawag, demanding the statues be pulled down as "flashpoints for hatred, division, and violence."
Who hates the statues, Terry? Who's going to cause the violence?
Answer: The Democratic left whom Terry must now appease.

McAuliffe is echoed by Lt. Gov. Ralph Northam, the Democratic candidate in November to succeed McAuliffe. GOP nominee Ed Gillespie wants Monument Avenue left alone.
The election is the place to decide this, but the left will not wait.
In Durham, North Carolina, our Taliban smashed the statue of a Confederate soldier. Near the entrance of Duke University Chapel, a statue of Lee has been defaced, the nose broken off.

Wednesday at dawn, Baltimore carried out a cultural cleansing by taking down statues of Lee and Maryland Chief Justice Roger Taney who wrote the Dred Scott decision and opposed Lincoln's suspension of the right of habeas corpus.
Like ISIS, which smashed the storied ruins of Palmyra, and the al-Qaida rebels who ravaged the fabled Saharan city of Timbuktu, the new barbarism has come to America. This is going to become a blazing issue, not only between but within the parties.
For there are 10 Confederates in Statuary Hall in the Capitol, among them Lee, Georgia's Alexander Stephens, vice president to Jefferson Davis, and Davis himself. The Black Caucus wants them gone.

Mount Rushmore-sized carvings of Lee, Jackson and Davis are on Stone Mountain, Georgia. Are they to be blasted off?

There are countless universities, colleges and high schools like Washington & Lee named for Confederate statesmen and soldiers. Across the Potomac from D.C. are Jefferson Davis Highway and Leesburg Pike to Leesburg itself, 25 miles north. Are all highways, streets, towns and counties named for Confederates to be renamed? What about Fort Bragg?
On every Civil War battlefield, there are monuments to the Southern fallen. Gettysburg has hundreds of memorials, statues and markers. But if, as the left insists we accept, the Confederates were traitors trying to tear America apart to preserve an evil system, upon what ground do Democrats stand to resist the radical left's demands?
What do we do with those battlefields where Confederates were victorious: Bull Run, Fredericksburg, Chancellorsville?
"Where does this all end?" President Trump asked.

It doesn't.

Not until America's histories and biographies are burned and new texts written to Nazify Lee, Jackson, Davis and all the rest, will a newly indoctrinated generation of Americans accede to this demand to tear down and destroy what their fathers cherished.
And once all the Confederates are gone, one must begin with the explorers, and then the slave owners like Presidents Washington, Jefferson and Madison, who seceded from slave-free Britain. White supremacists all.
Andrew Jackson, Henry Clay of Kentucky and John Calhoun must swiftly follow.
Then there are all those segregationists. From 1865 to 1965, virtually all of the great Southern senators were white supremacists.
In the first half of the 20th century, Woodrow Wilson and FDR carried all 11 states of a rigidly segregationist South all six times they ran, and FDR rewarded Dixie by putting a Klansman on the Supreme Court.
While easy for Republicans to wash their hands of such odious elements as Nazis in Charlottesville, will they take up the defense of the monuments and statues that have defined our history, or capitulate to the icon-smashers?

In this Second American Civil War, whose side are you on?



Image
duc, sequere, aut de via decede
"frapper fort, frapper vite, frappée souvent-- Adm William "Bull" Halsey
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Re: Anyone want to take a shot at this question.?????

Post by Tbeck »

Well not to get too picky, but that rectangular flag isn't a battle flag. ALL of the battle flag's were square, not rectangular.
It's actually pretty simple, the civil war was fought over states rights. Several political reasons we're at play, the states ability to secede, economic robbery by the northern states, and you have to toss in slavery even though it was minor with respect to the others.
With that said, tearing down statues or monument's of key historical figures from that era of our history, dishonors us all.
Do we bulldoze Gettysburg, or the other historical battlefields and build condo's to hide our past? Do we erase Madison, Jefferson, their plantation home's and universities? Maybe the Constitution and BoR should be burned given the status of the signatures personal histories or debate surrounding it's adopted form?
We are a nation with a history, with heroes and villains, and sometimes the reverse. We can no more impose modern ideals on past history, than those participating in our history could predict our future.
We need to start acting/behaving like rational and intelligent citizens, and quit trying to tear down what shaped our nation.
Sometimes I think that the entire US population has lost their frickin minds. These latest events are one of those times, but for arguments sake let me leave with this thought from a slave owning group;
"...or of the people to PEACEABLY ASSEMBLE..."
Nowhere does it present a RIGHT to prevent lawful ASSEMBLY, to violently confront or attempt to stop others from utilizing their RIGHTS as GUARANTEED by our Bill of Rights, because you disagree.

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Re: Anyone want to take a shot at this question.?????

Post by Travlin »

Tim,
Thanks for that.

There seem to be many things that are lost on today's kiddies when it is history involved. I suppose the one in this tantrum is that over 600,000 AMERICANS died on AMERICAN soil. This in itself needs to be remembered, it is our history. If history is something that makes you feel hinky, well there have been many things in history that should. That in itself shouldn't be erased just because it drives people to there safe places.

History is so selective in the way it is perceived, or maybe carried forward. Hitler killed millions in the name of his vision and people see him as.....well Hitler. Stalin killed more in his vision but people don't seem to to talk about him. Mao make those 2 look like street thugs compared to him yet he is NEVER mentioned in current conversions.

History is something to add foundation to the current. It may not be pleasant but burning the history books will not change it.

Didn't someone say 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'

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Re: Anyone want to take a shot at this question.?????

Post by old time rider »

Saw a lot of these three weeks ago on our bike trip.Both sides so guess they will just leave the Yank one's? Lots of bad and good on both sides but all that died were Americans.Image

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Re: Anyone want to take a shot at this question.?????

Post by wally w »

Anybody besides me read any Shelby Foote? Or Michael Shaaras KillerAngels? And the best motorcycle is the one you're riding or the one you're about to buy.

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Re: Anyone want to take a shot at this question.?????

Post by old time rider »

Image Tear it all down ,open the border even more and build free housing! :bonk:

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Post by old time rider »

Wally w have listened to and did read some Shelby Foot. That man had such a great voice. Every time I see Burns CW want to make sure I watch his parts. Been dead a few years now. One of my good riding friends is from Tenn, and we have been to lots of battle field sites in the south. He has so many close kinfolks buried at then.One died with Forrest and his name on the marker at battle site in Tenn.. He is a member of the SCV and unlike me is not a pac rat so gives me all his SCV magazines after he looks at them. I am called a SOB [emoji2] by them .Son of Both as I had kin folks on both sides ,more on the south. None owned slaves but would have if they had more money I bet. Kentucky was a really split state and the 13 star was to be Kentucky on the flag.Union broke the nutural act by recruiting at camp Dick R. near me.
Have never had that book in my hand yet but the name sounds like may have read another one he wrote? Confederate's in the Attic was last CW book I finshed.

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Re: Anyone want to take a shot at this question.?????

Post by Suzuki Johnny »

Tbeck wrote:Well not to get too picky, but that rectangular flag isn't a battle flag. ALL of the battle flag's were square, not rectangular.
It's actually pretty simple, the civil war was fought over states rights. Several political reasons we're at play, the states ability to secede, economic robbery by the northern states, and you have to toss in slavery even though it was minor with respect to the others.
With that said, tearing down statues or monument's of key historical figures from that era of our history, dishonors us all.
Do we bulldoze Gettysburg, or the other historical battlefields and build condo's to hide our past? Do we erase Madison, Jefferson, their plantation home's and universities? Maybe the Constitution and BoR should be burned given the status of the signatures personal histories or debate surrounding it's adopted form?
We are a nation with a history, with heroes and villains, and sometimes the reverse. We can no more impose modern ideals on past history, than those participating in our history could predict our future.
We need to start acting/behaving like rational and intelligent citizens, and quit trying to tear down what shaped our nation.
Sometimes I think that the entire US population has lost their frickin minds. These latest events are one of those times, but for arguments sake let me leave with this thought from a slave owning group;
"...or of the people to PEACEABLY ASSEMBLE..."
Nowhere does it present a RIGHT to prevent lawful ASSEMBLY, to violently confront or attempt to stop others from utilizing their RIGHTS as GUARANTEED by our Bill of Rights, because you disagree.




The rectangular drawn flag is resized sideways to accommodate the wording.....
And you're right assuming the battle flag was square if you're talking about the Army of Northern Virginia....but if you would be talking about the battle flag of the Army of Tennessee ...called the Southern Cross Army of Tennessee then you would be wrong in that assumption...
Of course you're forgiven T....since you're a Yankee [emoji106] :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Everything else I agree with you 100%...this will never end with far left liberals....they want to erase all aspects of their sordid past including the KKK...and voting en masse against the civil rights act of 1965........When the history books read that Donald Trump was a racist demagogue , and all southern statues are replaced with obozo and rosa parks and the like............... then they will back off..




Image
duc, sequere, aut de via decede
"frapper fort, frapper vite, frappée souvent-- Adm William "Bull" Halsey
“We’re not going to just shoot the sons-of-bitches, we’re going to rip out their living Goddamned guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks.”--Gen George Patton
"Our Liberty is insured by four "Boxes", the Ballot box, the Jury box, the Soap box and the Cartridge box"

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Re: Anyone want to take a shot at this question.?????

Post by Herb »

"then they will back off"

Not hardly, they will just find something else to riot about. They really don't care about the flags, monuments, etc. They want the violence/strife.
They just want an excuse for their violent behavior.
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Re: Anyone want to take a shot at this question.?????

Post by old time rider »

Last year went with the CSV friend to a mostly motorcycles flag day in south west Ky. Saw lots of flags I had never seen before .No skin heads,german stuff,etc.,just lots of period looking confederate out fits and women in out fits of the time.A few union out fits.Over 30 flags,some really used in the CW. That night some of the ones not taken down were torn up by protesters.

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Re: Anyone want to take a shot at this question.?????

Post by RoadKing »

Herb wrote:"then they will back off"

Not hardly, they will just find something else to riot about. They really don't care about the flags, monuments, etc. They want the violence/strife.
They just want an excuse for their violent behavior.
And the purpose behind their violent behavior is to tear the country as we know it apart.
“Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more.
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury…
Signifying nothing”

Signifying monkey, stay up in your tree. Always lying and signifying, but you better not monkey with me.

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Re: Anyone want to take a shot at this question.?????

Post by Designer »

RoadKing wrote:
Herb wrote:"then they will back off"

Not hardly, they will just find something else to riot about. They really don't care about the flags, monuments, etc. They want the violence/strife.
They just want an excuse for their violent behavior
.
And the purpose behind their violent behavior is to tear the country as we know it apart.
Similar tactics of "Near-constant Disruption" used in fomenting the Russian Revolution.

A communist take over.
Image

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Re: Anyone want to take a shot at this question.?????

Post by Herb »

Designer wrote:
RoadKing wrote:
Herb wrote:"then they will back off"

Not hardly, they will just find something else to riot about. They really don't care about the flags, monuments, etc. They want the violence/strife.
They just want an excuse for their violent behavior
.
And the purpose behind their violent behavior is to tear the country as we know it apart.
Similar tactics of "Near-constant Disruption" used in fomenting the Russian Revolution.

A communist take over.
Yep!
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Re: Anyone want to take a shot at this question.?????

Post by sgtcall »

For all those that thought GA just gave in and changed their flag take a look at this link. It shows the first flag that flew for the confederate states.

http://www.usflag.org/confederate.stars.and.bars.html

Then take a look at the current GA flag.

http://www.50states.com/flag/gaflag.htm

Sometimes it seems people protest just to protest but don't know what they really want.

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Re: Anyone want to take a shot at this question.?????

Post by Tbeck »

SJ, well the southern cross army of Tennessee didn't really have a flag like folks display today. They were more or less unit/regiment/division flag's similar in design, but all very unique. Pretty much a copy of the Navy flag.
1864(?) If I recall??
The interesting thing here SJ is there is SO much history just in the study of the different flag's, and yet the IDIOTS continue to assert that one flag represents oppression and slavery. I guess someone must have TOLD them this, because anyone reading up on the Confederate flagS wouldn't arrive at that conclusion.
Same thing with Lee. NOBODY who actually read up on Lee would or could arrive at the conclusion that he led the army for any purpose other than state defense. To assert he fought to preserve slavery is ridiculous

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Re: Anyone want to take a shot at this question.?????

Post by BlacktopTravelr »

Tbeck, the thing you are over looking is that those causing all the noise to remove statues, flags and whatnot aren't really worried about the truth getting out. They want to cause as much havoc in America as they can. And it appears they are doing a damn good job of it too. :hellfire:
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Post by Tbeck »

BT, I know exactly what is going on, but I am not so sure everyone does...
Why haven't the authorities (state or federal) put a stop to ANY of these events?
They could VERY easily.

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Tbeck wrote:BT, I know exactly what is going on, but I am not so sure everyone does...
Why haven't the authorities (state or federal) put a stop to ANY of these events?
They could VERY easily.
Please note that the vast majority of these events, if not all, are taking place where the communistic democratic party is in power.

They DON'T want to stop it, and if the truth were really known they probably are in on the planning. Their main purpose is to destabilize the country to where a declaration of martial law can be made.

This is from the communist manifesto and has been repeated all over the world, by communists.

As for the federal government, EVERY time Trump does something to protect this country he gets slammed by people on both sides, the media, AND the courts find against him. Unlike obummer, Trump does not do major end runs around the courts or the constitution.

Look at the hassels he is having trying to slow down the immigration (both legal and illegal), trying to keep dangerous muslims out, and trying cut off law enforcement funds to cities that refuse to cooperate with the Border Patrol?
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Re: Anyone want to take a shot at this question.?????

Post by sgtcall »

Do we really need to question why all of this is happening now. I think that is pretty easy. George Soros pays people to protest.


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