Reinstated

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Herb
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Re: Reinstated

Post by Herb »

Tbeck wrote:Herb, I am going to try to clarify the stuff you're mentioning but a conversation requires your willingness to think about what's being discussed, so here goes.
The Japanese have been teaching WWII from THEIR position all along. In fact you posted and provided a link confirming this.You say it's inaccurate, but in their view it's correct. They consider the USA meddling in their China affair's and stopping oil trade acts of aggression on our part which justified the attack on the USA. We obviously see it differently, but that's not revisionism, it's simply another nation's stance on who started what.
The M-H textbook ADDED a section covering the "pleasure women" which has been a sore subject between China and Japan for a very long time. Obviously forcing foreign women to be pleasure toys for an occupying army isn't something any nation would take pride in advertising. So they have been trying to have this removed from the book. Is it history? Yes it is, but one needs to be mindful of what depth we go with a primary grade student. Does the topic warrant a unit in a child's textbook? Or would it be better to simply mention that atrocities were committed by Japanese soldiers in Chinese forced labor camps against women, and save the specifics for a more age appropriate audience? So they aren't revising, they are attempting to get a political and embarrassing event from that history taken out of a child's textbook. I see both sides of the fight as having merit.
Now as to the anti-slave party. EVERY single school that teaches early American history teaches that, and did when you went to school. They teach about how the Whigs basically came apart leading to the formation of the Republican party which started the muttering from southern stated about leaving the union.
You probably don't recall it because the PARTY wasn't the main focus. The main focus was events leading to the election of Lincoln and the civil war.
NO school that I am familiar with teaches that the first black's elected to Congress were Republican, UNLESS they specifically offer an elective course on black history. It just isn't important to provide that topic in a general American history class.
This next paragraph is where we agree and disagree. I cannot speak for all teacher's of history, but my focus has been to provide a narrative and have the students investigate the FACTS. Kind of steering the students to sources to find the truth. It isn't good enough with modern technology to teach because the kid's can go online and find all kinds of crazy assertions that are different from what I might teach. The focus needs to be on finding sources, but finding credible one's. Teaching the kids can also result in leading them to believe what the teacher says without question. I'm not sure that's a great idea, because different teacher's have varying understanding of historical data.
The reality in most schools are that there simply is not enough time to teach everything from our history. As such teacher's have to pick and choose between those parts or events from our history that will give the students the best foundation of the big concepts. Examples might be; what socio-economic factor's led to the colonies declaring Independence from England, or what social and political differences prompted the civil war...
As you can imagine from those two examples a multitude of different historical topics could be discussed, but not every small piece will be covered. It's simply impossible to do so.
Obviously the more classes on any period or event, the greater the details.
Considering the subject matter, the fact that the first blacks elected to congress were republicans, in 1870 and it wasn't until 1935 that a black democrat was elected to congress. Most people would be inclined to think this is a pretty big deal...not some minutia that got lost in the telling....

But then, when the history is being hidden, twisted, faked, it is easy to lose the facts.
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Tbeck
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Re: Reinstated

Post by Tbeck »

Herb, what difference does it make, today even, which party some black dude was affiliated with?
Now you have an interest in the politics of how the democrats became the party black's traditionally support. Most people don't give this much if any thought, but for you it's important.
Most accept that during the equal rights era the Democratic party evolved into the pro-rights party. To people living today, this is the relevant information, not who was elected in what party in 1870. You also have to remember that from shortly after the first few black's got elected until about 1908, southern Democrats implemented a number of laws which basically prevented blacks and poor whites from running at all.
Now what is relevant to the classroom is how party platforms have evolved over time.
See your final comments are why I don't much care to waste time discussing this stuff with you. There is no conspiracy amongst history educator's to twist history. I have tried to explain to you the limitations imposed by time on how much can be taught, and how teacher's attempt to write lessons so as to get the most history to the students. If you want to see this as a conspiracy to alter, there is nothing more I can say that will help you understand what is really happening.

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Re: Reinstated

Post by jonnycando »

Virginia had some years ago, it's first elected black Governor....Douglas Wilder...Virginia dems BTW are very pragmatic.....but the reason we always put "elected" in it, is that in the eighteen hundreds, we had the first black Governor. He had been elected Lieutenant Governor, and rose to the Governor's office when the incumbent fell over dead. Virginia has done a lot of things first that folks just don't know about!

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Herb
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Re: Reinstated

Post by Herb »

Tbeck wrote:Herb, what difference does it make, today even, which party some black dude was affiliated with?
Now you have an interest in the politics of how the democrats became the party black's traditionally support. Most people don't give this much if any thought, but for you it's important.

Most accept that during the equal rights era the Democratic party evolved into the pro-rights party. To people living today, this is the relevant information, not who was elected in what party in 1870. You also have to remember that from shortly after the first few black's got elected until about 1908, southern Democrats implemented a number of laws which basically prevented blacks and poor whites from running at all.
Now what is relevant to the classroom is how party platforms have evolved over time.
See your final comments are why I don't much care to waste time discussing this stuff with you. There is no conspiracy amongst history educator's to twist history. I have tried to explain to you the limitations imposed by time on how much can be taught, and how teacher's attempt to write lessons so as to get the most history to the students. If you want to see this as a conspiracy to alter, there is nothing more I can say that will help you understand what is really happening.
You don't understand the hatred the blacks have for the GOP? You don't think that MAYBE if the black REALLY knew the GOP was the party that ALWAYS supported blacks and the democrats were the party that worked to keep them down, there might be a different attitude towards the GOP, and the USA?

You say "Most accept that during the equal rights era the Democratic party evolved into the pro-rights party." Which, again, is because of a failure to report/teach the facts. The GOP was the party that supported the civil rights movement, the dims opposed it all down the line, until LBJ put in the "great society" that included a bunch of giveaways that required blacks to move onto Uncle Sam's plantation and give up their freedoms for the give a ways.

And you don't believe the truth would make a difference???

I feel sorry for you.
I can't seem to win the lottery. I think I have used up all of my good luck riding motorcycles.

Tbeck
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Re: Reinstated

Post by Tbeck »

Herb, no I don't believe, not for a second, that black's might look more favorably on the GOP if they knew they were the anti-slave party 150+ years ago. They care about the NOW and how things can be manipulated to there benefit today.
The Democratic party became the equal rights promoters in the 60's, the GOP opposed, and still opposes social safety net programs used mainly by minorities. It was NOT LBJ, it was Kennedy that stuck his neck out on ER issues.
There are loads of assumptions being posted, and generalizations, but suffice to say, it's all about what are you doing for me today. I will give you a good example. Most Republican supporter's are of the belief that Republicans, not Democrats are the bigger political supporters of Israel. That actually a false conclusion.

You're attempting to link truth, with choice. The truth is as I previously pointed out, nobody's political affiliation is based on 150+ year old history, and particularly when the party that was, no longer is.
Now if you can't grasp this reality, I feel sorry for you.

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