Bad Times thney are a-coming

[BlacktopTravelr]

Ok, let's do it your way. But I still think it is going to be hard to get an ex-government worker to be productive in the civilian workforce especially on a regular workers pay.

[Designer]

...won't happen
...there will be chaos
...economies of Japan...EU...collapse
...look at the books of all the banks there
...remember economically unstable Greece and others
...America is not that much better
...just marginally better
...the numbers are staggering
...this hope that inflation will pay down the debt exists in a fantasy
...disregards the context of the picture worldwide
...does(n't) take into account the strife and unstabilization that will occur

Can you be more specific?

.

Hey NE_FL, look up "anal retentive" and "obsessive compulsive" and see if it rings a bell

[jonnycando]

I saw several mistakes in the op. One thing is the total debt.. the US debt alone is around 17 trillion and there is no way we can ever pay that off. So the government will have to default on it's debt and with that comes the next great depression. get ready for it because it is coming whether you like it or not. The second was about why we got into WWII, it was not because of the great depression of 1929. But that really doesn't matter, what matters is that there is a great deression fixing to happen and most people are too blind to see it coming. They think it can't happen to the USA. Well, it happened once and it can and will happen again. Congress in it's great wisdom has made sure it will happen by their stupidity of spending money we do not have and borrowing from a fake bank (the Federal Reserve) money made out of thin air. If I was to do that I would end up in prison for counterfeiting. [space]

The USA is in a beautiful position that all it's debt is denominated in dollars. Should the piper come calling for full payment, the US will print up the requisite number of dollars and remit forthwith....all those paper dollars may actually be worthless, but they will have to be accepted. Were all our debt denominated in say...Chinese Yuan, and it was time to pay, we may find that we cannot afford the necessary amount of Yuan to pay. That why smart countries always buy debt in their native currency if they can. Further, much of our national debt is purchased by China, and they will not call for payment any time soon, because we engage in trade. They know that if they call for full payment, we will pay, but we will not be able to continue in trade, we'll be broke. In other words....so long as we are buying Chinese junk....we ARE servicing national debt. Servicing....not paying off. Our best move going forward is to not create MORE debt.

[NE_FL]

...won't happen
...there will be chaos
...economies of Japan...EU...collapse
...look at the books of all the banks there
...remember economically unstable Greece and others
...America is not that much better
...just marginally better
...the numbers are staggering
...this hope that inflation will pay down the debt exists in a fantasy
...disregards the context of the picture worldwide
...does(n't) take into account the strife and unstabilization that will occur

Can you be more specific?

.

Hey NE_FL, look up "anal retentive" and "obsessive compulsive" and see if it rings a bell

Doesn't ring my bell, but it sure does yours! So,... Your answer is No, you have no specifics. That's what I thought.

.

[NE_FL]

The USA is in a beautiful position that all it's debt is denominated in dollars. Should the piper come calling for full payment, the US will print up the requisite number of dollars and remit forthwith....all those paper dollars may actually be worthless, but they will have to be accepted. Were all our debt denominated in say...Chinese Yuan, and it was time to pay, we may find that we cannot afford the necessary amount of Yuan to pay. That why smart countries always buy debt in their native currency if they can. Further, much of our national debt is purchased by China, and they will not call for payment any time soon, because we engage in trade. They know that if they call for full payment, we will pay, but we will not be able to continue in trade, we'll be broke. In other words....so long as we are buying Chinese junk....we ARE servicing national debt. Servicing....not paying off. Our best move going forward is to not create MORE debt.

Nicely put!

[BlacktopTravelr]

The USA is in a beautiful position that all it's debt is denominated in dollars. Should the piper come calling for full payment, the US will print up the requisite number of dollars and remit forthwith....all those paper dollars may actually be worthless, but they will have to be accepted. Were all our debt denominated in say...Chinese Yuan, and it was time to pay, we may find that we cannot afford the necessary amount of Yuan to pay. That why smart countries always buy debt in their native currency if they can. Further, much of our national debt is purchased by China, and they will not call for payment any time soon, because we engage in trade. They know that if they call for full payment, we will pay, but we will not be able to continue in trade, we'll be broke. In other words....so long as we are buying Chinese junk....we ARE servicing national debt. Servicing....not paying off. Our best move going forward is to not create MORE debt.

First off the US government doesn't print money, it buys money printed out of thin air by the Fed reserve. Second thing is other countries do not have to take American dollars if they do not wish to. And there is a movement on to do away with the American dollar as the world currency. Here's something to think about.

Sep 10, 2015 - According to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) or the world's loan shark, China has even passed the U.S. as the world's largest economy. A large part of having a global reserve currency is your currency becomes global in demand. It is the international baseline currency for all trade.

That means other countries are going to start saving the Chinese Yuan instead of the American dollar. The end of the America we grew up in is a whole lot closer than you think. And here is an interesting article you might read.
https://cointelegraph.com/news/rumor-mi ... in-october

[Designer]

Doesn't ring my bell, but it sure does yours! So,... Your answer is No, you have no specifics. That's what I thought.

I guess I hit a sore spot and it's eating at you! There's nothing to respond to. I made a statement and it must have rung a bell! Instead of thinking about it and perhaps becoming an enlightened and more tolerant individual, you want to drag me into a discussion legitimizing your tiresome and repetitious harassment of me with whom you disagree.

Sorry, I ain't biting. [emoji41] [/quote]

[Designer]

This debt will never be paid off and those in power and the economist know it. That is why the economist are saying a depression in coming and it is non-stoppable. It will happen whether we are willing to face that fact or not.

Correct.

It can NEVER be paid off. [space] How can I say this? [space] Because the number is BEYOND staggering

First..... it would help to visualize just what our 19 TRILLION Dollar Debt really looks like.

Here is what ONE TRILLION dollars looks like:



Remember...that image is a DOUBLE STACK of those pallets of money.



Here is a somewhat dated image of what our National Debt looked like when it was "only" 16.9 TRILLION:





You need to add 3 (THREE) MORE TRILLION DOLLARS to that wall of stacked pallets of money.

There is just not enough property that the government has to sell...nor governmental employee cuts that could be made...that would put a even a small dent in that wall.

[BlacktopTravelr]

From what I understand that has been the sole purpose of Obama and his presidency. To wreck the US dollar. Once he wrecks the US dollar he wrecks the America economy and America. Of course he isn't in this alone, but he has been the main player for the last 8 years. As I see it he doesn't really need any terrorist group to tear down America for him like I thought. He only needs for the American people to keep their heads in the sand for a few more months and when the economy drops he will see what he has waited 8 years to see. That would be the fall of the once great nation of the United States.

[Herb]

actually, it is possible to pay the debt off.

The first thing we have to do is quit spending more than is coming in.

Take a look at what is happening.

http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/year ... 1n#usgs302

If we drop a bunch of zeros, we can look at it like a person that has a home mortgage and a car payment.

Income of $32,667

debt of $195,374

That is less than 6 times the income in debt. There are a whole bunch of people that have debt to income of up to 10 times the annual income, and are surviving/paying off the debt.

Right now I have a debt to income ratio of over 3 times income. What I don't have is more spending than I am taking in.

annual deficit of $5,874, almost 18% of our income in deficit spending.

Cut spending by $8,000 a year, put $2,153 on the debt.

Keep in mind that a part of the deficit is the service (interest) on the debt. We are paying 223 billion in interest alone, that is almost 38% of the annual deficit, more than the budget of the department of agriculture.

As the debt is paid down, the interest goes down and more of the money goes on the debt itself.

Yeah, it would take between 10 and 15 years to pay it off, probably closer to 10 because of the decreasing cost of the interest, unless the interest rate goes up. That is why it is important to get things under control right away.

BUT, it is not impossible.

What is impossible is to keep spending 587.4 billion more than we take in.

Back in the 70's we got ourselves in a hole with debt to where I was having to borrow to buy groceries. We were so far in the hole that I thought I could never get out out it. Our debt and income were smaller, but the actual ratio was almost the same, we were at almost 6 times my income in debt. By careful budgeting, we got our deficit spending under control. My wife and I had it figured that it would take us 5 years to get out from under, but by paying down debt, we got rid of a lot of interest, that was killing us. By paying off debt that is the highest interest first we were able to do things faster than we thought. Ended up it only took us a little over 3 years to get out from under. It was a struggle, but not having people dun me all the time made it worthwhile.

So, yes, the debt can be paid off, with careful use of the money, and the sale of some of the federal property would make it possible to pay it off even sooner. But with the irresponsible spending there is no point in selling property until they get spending under control.

[BlacktopTravelr]

actually, it is possible to pay the debt off. The first thing we have to do is quit spending more than is coming in.

So, yes, the debt can be paid off, with careful use of the money, and the sale of some of the federal property would make it possible to pay it off even sooner. But with the irresponsible spending there is no point in selling property until they get spending under control.

You my friend are looking at the debt thru rose colored glasses. First off the debt is getting bigger by the minute because of the interest we have to pay and because we have a bunch of clowns in congress that believe like you do that the debt can be paid off. These same clowns will continue to spend more than comes in no matter what the people say. The only way to stop them is to vote them out of office which will not happen as long as they continue to give away freebies.

Now let's say we try your idea... just who is going to buy this government property you put up for sale and how much do you think they will pay for it? Nobody in their right mind is going to pay top dollar for government surplus property.

[Herb]

actually, it is possible to pay the debt off. The first thing we have to do is quit spending more than is coming in.

So, yes, the debt can be paid off, with careful use of the money, and the sale of some of the federal property would make it possible to pay it off even sooner. But with the irresponsible spending there is no point in selling property until they get spending under control.

You my friend are looking at the debt thru rose colored glasses. First off the debt is getting bigger by the minute because of the interest we have to pay and because we have a bunch of clowns in congress that believe like you do that the debt can be paid off. These same clowns will continue to spend more than comes in no matter what the people say. The only way to stop them is to vote them out of office which will not happen as long as they continue to give away freebies.

Now let's say we try your idea... just who is going to buy this government property you put up for sale and how much do you think they will pay for it? Nobody in their right mind is going to pay top dollar for government surplus property.

Like I said, a debt of almost 6 times income is NOT impossible to overcome. However it does take commitment to a budget that is austere enough to give you the money to pay it off.

Would it be tough, damn straight it would be. But the alternative is going so far in debt that we will end up as a 3rd world, or worse, country.

I am more than willing to give up the ag subsidies, the EPA, Dept of ed, Bureau of Land Management, welfare and medical for non-citizens (especially including for the muslim refugees coming here), and at least 3 of the armed federal police forces. Just these few agencies would more than clear the deficit and give us plenty to start paying down the debt.

[NE_FL]

Designer, you need to quit plagiarizing the comments of others. All you are doing is exposing your lack of originality.

Concerning debts, the national debt or private debts, or any other kind of debt, they can ALL be paid off. It is only
a matter of time, amount of payments towards principal, and a willingness of the debtor to adhere to a budget
which has payoff in mind. Unfortunately, governments are playing with "other peoples money" and are not held
to a fiscally responsible policy "by the people." Until a revolutionary like Trump comes into power with a primary
goal of passing an austere budget and following it, this nation will always be in an ever increasing spiral of debt.

.

[BlacktopTravelr]

Concerning debts, the national debt or private debts, or any other kind of debt, they can ALL be paid off. It is only
a matter of time, amount of payments towards principal, and a willingness of the debtor to adhere to a budget
which has payoff in mind. Unfortunately, governments are playing with "other peoples money" and are not held
to a fiscally responsible policy "by the people." Until a revolutionary like Trump comes into power with a primary
goal of passing an austere budget and following it, this nation will always be in an ever increasing spiral of debt.

The experts, you know the economist that does the number crunching for a living, say paying off this huge debt is impossible. It is just too big. We are talking about Trillions of dollars here, that is with a T.

Total federal revenues were $2.16 trillion in fiscal year 2010. That isn't even close to 1/6th of our debt of 17 trillion. You have to remember we are talking Trillions of dollars here. As far as I know we pay on the interest but not on the actual debt. You know the part that keeps getting bigger every day, month, and year.

You guys can have this thread as I can see you don't want to face the facts the the debt is too big, congress doesn't want to pay it down and we are headed for a debt forfeiture in the not so distant future whether Trump gets in office or not. Have a nice day.

[NE_FL]

BTT, in theory it is possible to pay off the national debt. Practically speaking, you are correct, it is near impossible.

[maxriderdon]

I'm not nearly as financially smart as many of you but common sense tells me we are in major financial trouble.

[Designer]

Designer, you need to quit plagiarizing the comments of others. All you are doing is exposing your lack of originality.

Concerning debts, the national debt or private debts, or any other kind of debt, they can ALL be paid off. It is only
a matter of time, amount of payments towards principal, and a willingness of the debtor to adhere to a budget
which has payoff in mind. Unfortunately, governments are playing with "other peoples money" and are not held
to a fiscally responsible policy "by the people." Until a revolutionary like Trump comes into power with a primary
goal of passing an austere budget and following it, this nation will always be in an ever increasing spiral of debt.

This just smacks of more of your Anal-retentiveness. [space] You would do well to recognize this issue and get past it so you can see and realize the bigger picture going on here:

The experts, you know the economist that does the number crunching for a living, say paying off this huge debt is impossible. It is just too big. We are talking about Trillions of dollars here, that is with a T.

If we take it that the Federal Government has Annual Revenues of 2.16 Trillion income (as you point out).... that is about ONE NINTH the National Debt we have of about 19.8 TRILLION. [space] Given that the current income is NO WHERE near sufficient to support the current Governmental Expenditures... ( read: we are running a Large Deficit that Constantly only ADDS to the Debt).....where would any monies come from to:

1. First STOP the Deficit Spending that adds to the Debt.

2. Have a Surplus Governmental Income over that to Pay Down this 19.8 TRILLION Debt?


But...truth be told,....this talk of our National Debt being 19.8 some odd Trillion ignores the REAL NUMBERS.

THE REAL NATIONAL DEBT is alot closer to 122 TRILLION.

If you take into account unmentioned Debts the Government has,...those of unfunded civilian and military pensions... and retiree healthcare,....and the additional underfunding for Social Security,.... the additional underfunding for Medicare,....along with various commitments and contingencies that the federal government has,..... the real number is closer to 122 Trillion.

These are all commitments our Government has made to it's citizens,....it all has to be paid to our citizens,...So it VERY MUCH a part of the National Debt.

[NE_FL]

...
1. First STOP the Deficit Spending that adds to the Debt.

2. Have a Surplus Governmental Income over that to Pay Down this 19.8 TRILLION Debt?
...

I agree with whomever you copied that from.

[Herb]

just for general information the income for 2016 is $3,266.7 trillion. the debt is just under 6 times the federal income. This is NOT an insurmountable figure, if, huge IF, we are able to stop adding to it.

Damn sure that hildabeast isn't gonna do anything but spend even more money and put more people out of work, all of which will only add to the problem.

Not real sure if Trump can or will do the things he says he will, but at least he is talking a good game.

[Designer]

...
1. First STOP the Deficit Spending that adds to the Debt.

2. Have a Surplus Governmental Income over that to Pay Down this 19.8 TRILLION Debt?
...

I agree with whomever you copied that from.

Just like the jerk you have started to be...you fail to realize that is not anything I copied.

Go ahead......check it out via Google.......I dare you.

Type in those exact words. [space] You will find that those words are mine alone (READ; original)....and....Had you been smart and done your Homework.....you would have done so and thus stopped typing with..."I Agree"


[emoji41]