This was interesting in a taxpayer kinda way

[MattSunn]

https://moonbattery.com/7-5-billion-for ... v-chargers

[MadCow]

And we wonder why we are $33.9 TRILLION in debt.

[Tbeck]

Now what I found interesting is that the EPA according to the article has mandated electric cars by 2030. However the SCOTUS recently ruled that these agencies don't have that authority because Congress didn't specifically grant that authority. So I guess that they'll be another battle over that.

As far as the why the big push? China! Nuff said.

[Herb]

Now what I found interesting is that the EPA according to the article has mandated electric cars by 2030. However the SCOTUS recently ruled that these agencies don't have that authority because Congress didn't specifically grant that authority. So I guess that they'll be another battle over that.

As far as the why the big push? China! Nuff said.

It is all about control of us peons...

[Suzuki Johnny]

CHINA..................THE BIG GUY.....................HIS OFFSPRING

[Tbeck]

China dominates the global marketplace, so it makes perfect sense to push electric cars if it benefits China and it does.

Has nothing to do with controlling the masses and has everything to do with economics.

[hillsy v2]

China dominates the global marketplace, so it makes perfect sense to push electric cars if it benefits China and it does.

Has nothing to do with controlling the masses and has everything to do with economics.

Almost right. A manufacturer can only dominate a marketplace if the market is already there. The manufacturer has little to do with creating the market.

So it's the push for electric cars which creates the market and the big manufacturers take this on board.

But if you smoke enough pot you'll come to the conclusion it's all about control.

[Tbeck]

Not necessarily true hillsy, you let something slip by.
China has been snatching up all of the new oil fields in the developing countries by way of development deals. The Chinese send in a whole group of people who construct and build infrastructure within these nation states and in exchange get their oil reserves. Sudan comes to mind first but there's been dozens of other's.
Limit the global supply and the Chinese create a new market in alternative energy, which they also dominate. The Chinese footprint in Africa and Europe is HUGE and very few are even aware how huge.
Windmill's, micro-chips, battery raw materials, and the list goes on are Chinese venture's that are driving the global marketplace. All the developed worlds political elite have been getting wealthy off this knowledge for decades.
Have you heard of Temu? It's like the Chinese version of Amazon. Oh wait it's an affiliate of Amazon. Who knew

[hillsy v2]

T - if the West wasn't demanding green energy then the Chinese simply wouldn't be manufacturing it. It's not the other way round - we're not buying it simply because someone is making it.

China also has a burgeoning middle class after decades of low cost production - and it is now cheaper to have a lot of products manufactured in India and other lower socio-economic countries. I think China will be at a bit of a crossroads in a few years time from that aspect hence the unrest we are seeing now.

[Tbeck]

hillsy, actually I am correct. We're only asking for a new technology because it's available.
The BIG push originated in Europe because of a number of dependency issues, but the Chinese were in on the ground floor pushing their ability to supply the goods.

Here's the thing about human nature; we like the idea of new stuff...change! However as I used to demonstrate for my students, ALL change is bad.

To make my point that you can create the market rather than the other way around, think back to CFC's and the ozone debacle. Someone claimed that we were destroying the ozone and entirely new products were developed in order to replace existing CFC emitting product.
Drake discovers petroleum in Pennsylvania and an entire new industry, actually several crop up.
So we like to think of things on the supply and demand chain, but the model is manipulated to create the demand.
It really is the old " which came first, chicken or egg.

[hillsy v2]

T - both your examples illustrate exactly what I said. The market is there because the buyer wants the tech, not the manufacturer creating the tech and then selling it to buyers who didn't know about it.

China pretty much just copies stuff. Look at all the bike accessory stuff like billet levers and pegs as an example - all copied from other manufacturers like Pazzo. Or all the Honda copy engines like Loncin.

The thing about China is they are pretty good at it and cheap - however there are other countries like India looking to compete in that space now.

[Tbeck]

Paradigm shift hillsy my friend . You are stuck in the supply and demand mode.
In my examples the manufacturer created, and as a result the consumer demanded.
When Drake discovered oil there wasn't a demand for it, consumer's had no idea what you could do with it. Additionally refineries cropped up, transportation, and new roads just because Drake tarted pumping petroleum. Car and motorcycle companies cropped up because of the new technology and resource.

Nobody was walking around saying that they wished they had a petroleum powered car or motorcycle, so there wasn't a demand until the new product began production.
This is where China is kicking everyone's ass. They know the west follows the supply/demand model, so they create the demand by offering up technologies that they've already ramped up production of. Then they sell the idea to the marketplace.
Think about it. You can't build EVs without batteries and the Chinese had long before ramped up production and mining of those raw materials, coincidence? I think not! They had the processors, chips, motors, and blades for the windmill's piling up before the push. Solar panels? Decades of production. It's a cart leading the horse.

[hillsy v2]

T - China does not create new technology. It manufactures at the request of the West / the globe because it's more cost effective for items to be manufactured there.

Always been that way.

Think about the examples you offered - PV cells and Lithium battery tech - neither were invented by China even though they produce the most of these items globally.

The problem China is increasingly facing is that there are other countries who are emerging as cheaper production options.