DIFFERENT VIEWS ON ELECTRIC CARS

[Suzuki Johnny]

Different View on Electric Cars
 Something to ponder. Electric cars are not a panacea. What happens for recharging when electric power is shut off for large periods as in California?
. How do you recharge your vehicle? How do you recharge your battery in a blizzard when stuck on a highway or interstate for hours as your battery runs dead?

Very interesting!
This could make you turn green! Or maybe turn your savings from green to red .
Electric Cars - Are they great or what?

THE PINEHURST PRESS NEWS & VIEWS
Interesting Take on Electric Cars
As an engineer I love the electric vehicle technology However, I have been troubled for a longtime by the fact that the electrical energy to keep the batteries charged has to come from the grid and that means more power generation and a huge increase in the distribution infrastructure. Whether generated from coal, gas, oil, wind or sun, installed generation capacity is limited. A friend sent me the following that says it very well. You should all take a look at this short article.

IF ELECTRIC CARS DO NOT USE GASOLINE, THEY WILL NOT PARTICIPATE IN PAYING AGASOLINE TAX ON EVERY GALLON THAT IS SOLD FOR AUTOMOBILES, WHICH WAS ENACTED SOME YEARS AGO TO HELP TO MAINTAIN OUR ROADS AND BRIDGES. THEY WILL USE THE ROADS, BUT WILL NOT PAY FOR THEIR MAINTENANCE!

In case you were thinking of buying hybrid or an electric car:
Ever since the advent of electric cars, the REAL cost per mile of those things has never been discussed. All you ever heard was the mpg in terms of gasoline, with nary a mention of the cost of electricity to run it. This is the first article I've ever seen and tells the story pretty much as I expected it to.
Electricity has to be one of the least efficient ways to power things yet they're being shoved down our throats. Glad somebody finally put engineering and math to paper.

At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro Executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious.
If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three houses with a single Tesla, each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded.
This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. So as our genius elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy these things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This latter "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead end road that it will be presented with an 'OOPS...!' and a shrug.

If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are
eco-friendly, just read the following. Note: If you ARE a green
person, read it anyway. It's enlightening.
Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors and he writes, "For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine.
"Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran
on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.
It will take you 4.5 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.

According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of
electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery.
The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned, so I looked up what I pay for electricity.
I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery.
$18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery.
Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 Mpg = $0.10 per mile.

The gasoline powered car costs about $35,000 while the Volt costs $46,000 plus. So the Canadian Government wants loyal Canadians not to do the math, but simply pay twice as much for a car, that costs more than seven times as much to run, and takes three times longer to drive across the country.

[RoadKing]

In all honesty, the amount of energy spent to create the electricity has been discussed for years and derisively so. This article is nothing new but what’s worse is that it will be no more successful at stopping the EV nonsense than any of the others. It’s very difficult for me to believe that leaders in government and industry can be this stupid so I must conclude it is but part of a concerted attempt to willfully destroy the middle class and create a totally subservient populace here leaving world dominance open to China.
The glitch in their plan is we are a “hand gonne” armed people. Lock and load. Does it sound like I am changing the subject? You decide.

[-DC-]

Was just posting about this on another forum…

My IPhone battery is good for about 2 years then I just replace it or more likely upgrade the phone… But I do replace batteries and keep older versions now for music.. I have a iPhone 6 on it’s 3rd battery…

My wifi has blown the back cover off twice with a swole up lithium ion battery failure, and it’s in it’s 3rd battery in 4 years..

What happens when you tie dozens of these lithium ion batteries together and just 1or2 fail?

A hybrid has battery assisted gas power… gets good gas mileage till the batteries go bad….

But in my opinion a all electric car or truck is asking a little to do a lot…

Even a sister of mine who is a very far left Bernie Sanders type liberal says that until they make one that can go 400 miles and then charge up in less than 30 minutes, she’ll never own one…

I worry about where they will find the lithium?
How the power grid will stand it when it’s already strained now?
How will you make across country trip in under a week?

I just think all electric will be a disaster and GM’s decision to go that route will either bankrupt em or they will end up truly being Govt Motors instead…

[hillsy]

It's all going to depend on new battery tech and creating swappable battery cells.

There's already some real interesting tech with aluminium-ion batteries which can charge 60 times faster than lithium and are smaller again for their capacity.

And if the industry can work on a universal platform for battery exchange then you could simply swap out cells at a service station rather than sit there waiting for your car to charge.

As far as road taxes lost from petrol excises? That just needs to be re-couped in a different manner. No biggie there.

[Designer]

The problems with electric vehicles go way beyond mere "better Battery Tech"

Exchanging such a large component as is a full battery pack is not some simple operation like filling gas....at all.

Such a suggested method would require a large level of standardization....both in sizing dimensions, shape, connections, power output etc.,..both in the battery(s) and in the cars motor and electrical system.

Since there are going to be many sizes of vehicles coming in for swapping, from sub-compacts to Work Trucks,...there will be a need for MANY different sized/configured batteries sitting in storage, all available instantly....imagine that cost of building \equipment and maintenance there of..

And what about inclement weather?. Rain, Snow , Subzero temps? To deal with that will require indoor, climate controlled & maintained space ADDING TO the costs of this (bogus) idea.

Good luck with that being cost-competitive.

[hillsy]

The problems with electric vehicles go way beyond mere "better Battery Tech"

Exchanging such a large component as is a full battery pack is not some simple operation like filling gas....at all.

Such a suggested method would require a large level of standardization....both in sizing dimensions, shape, connections, power output etc.,..both in the battery(s) and in the cars motor and electrical system.

Since there are going to be many sizes of vehicles coming in for swapping, from sub-compacts to Work Trucks,...there will be a need for MANY different sized/configured batteries sitting in storage, all available instantly....imagine that cost of building \equipment and maintenance there of..

And what about inclement weather?. Rain, Snow , Subzero temps? To deal with that will require indoor, climate controlled & maintained space ADDING TO the costs of this (bogus) idea.

Good luck with that being cost-competitive.

Fkn duh....never realised any of that.... except I mentioned it all in my post....

Inclement weather? Wouldn't be any different from filling your car with gas....

[HARRIS]

THE NEW WATCH WORDS TO RECHARGE A CAR ... " PICK IT UP TOMORROW " ....

[Designer]

The problems with electric vehicles go way beyond mere "better Battery Tech"
Exchanging such a large component as is a full battery pack is not some simple operation like filling gas....at all. Such a suggested method would require a large level of standardization....both in sizing dimensions, shape, connections, power output etc.,..both in the battery(s) and in the cars motor and electrical system. Since there are going to be many sizes of vehicles coming in for swapping, from sub-compacts to Work Trucks,...there will be a need for MANY different sized/configured batteries sitting in storage, all available instantly....imagine that cost of building \equipment and maintenance there of.. And what about inclement weather?. Rain, Snow , Subzero temps? To deal with that will require indoor, climate controlled & maintained space ADDING TO the costs of this (bogus) idea.

Good luck with that being cost-competitive.

Fkn duh....never realised any of that.... except I mentioned it all in my post....

No,..you didn't mention "all of that" .
You muttered some stunted-thinking generalized notion that a "universal battery pack'" will be The Whole Answer.

As you see above, I mentioned that such a Myopic concept cannot possibly work because of the vastly different sized vehicles,... from sub-compacts like "smart cars" to large work trucks.

However,.....With todays Liquid Fuels?,..............One Size Fits All!

nclement weather? Wouldn't be any different from filling your car with gas....

Yes, it would be Quite different.

Sad that you can't figure out that swapping such a Substantial Component as a Whole Battery Pack would require that vehicle being INSIDE an Enclosed, Weather-proofed and Conditioned Building when it is below zero, or snowing and the like.

Perhaps if you were a more observant person, you'd see that is not the case nowadays when filling up with gas.

Then there is the scenario where a car is stuck in a traffic jam during a snowstorm and runs out of power. Imagine swapping out a whole battery pack in the middle of that snow, cold and traffic.

But with the current liquid fuels? ..... pour in 2 gallons and AWAY YOU GO!

[hillsy]

The problems with electric vehicles go way beyond mere "better Battery Tech"
Exchanging such a large component as is a full battery pack is not some simple operation like filling gas....at all. Such a suggested method would require a large level of standardization....both in sizing dimensions, shape, connections, power output etc.,..both in the battery(s) and in the cars motor and electrical system. Since there are going to be many sizes of vehicles coming in for swapping, from sub-compacts to Work Trucks,...there will be a need for MANY different sized/configured batteries sitting in storage, all available instantly....imagine that cost of building \equipment and maintenance there of.. And what about inclement weather?. Rain, Snow , Subzero temps? To deal with that will require indoor, climate controlled & maintained space ADDING TO the costs of this (bogus) idea.

Good luck with that being cost-competitive.

Fkn duh....never realised any of that.... except I mentioned it all in my post....

No,..you didn't mention "all of that" .
You muttered some stunted-thinking generalized notion that a "universal battery pack'" will be The Whole Answer.

As you see above, I mentioned that such a Myopic concept cannot possibly work because of the vastly different sized vehicles,... from sub-compacts like "smart cars" to large work trucks.

However,.....With todays Liquid Fuels?,..............One Size Fits All!

nclement weather? Wouldn't be any different from filling your car with gas....

Yes, it would be Quite different.

Sad that you can't figure out that swapping such a Substantial Component as a Whole Battery Pack would require that vehicle being INSIDE an Enclosed, Weather-proofed and Conditioned Building when it is below zero, or snowing and the like.

Perhaps if you were a more observant person, you'd see that is not the case nowadays when filling up with gas.

Then there is the scenario where a car is stuck in a traffic jam during a snowstorm and runs out of power. Imagine swapping out a whole battery pack in the middle of that.

Talk about myopia....

You're STILL looking at existing battery tech and current EV design.

Imagine battery packs that are about the size of a loaf of bread that can be simply unclipped and replaced? A bit like an oversized cordless drill battery. And I'd imagine you could even change one of those OUTSIDE an "Enclosed, Weather-proofed and Conditioned Building"

That stuff isn't far away - like I said they just need to agree on a universal battery platform and make it happen.

[Designer]

Talk about myopia....

You're STILL looking at existing battery tech and current EV design.

Imagine battery packs that are about the size of a loaf of bread that can be simply unclipped and replaced? A bit like an oversized cordless drill battery. And I'd imagine you could even change one of those OUTSIDE an "Enclosed, Weather-proofed and Conditioned Building"

That stuff isn't far away - like I said they just need to agree on a universal battery platform and make it happen.

You are deluding yourself. But,...you just keep believing all that is told you!

BTW,....tell us more about how the Amazon Rainforest is "The Worlds Lungs"

[hillsy]

I calculate we are only about 4 posts away from you bringing up the great "Solar Panel Victory"

While we're skewing off topic - how about you tell us more about how you've never seen a clutch pack lock up? Or how you've never seen dirt go past the screen in the fuel tap?

[Overkill777]

I don't give a shit about the environmental impact or the efficiency but if you've never driven an electric car you should try it. The instantaneous torque is awesome. Very impressive acceleration. I would own one if they were affordable.

Don't get me wrong I love engines.

[Designer]

Never said I never saw a Clutch Pack ever lock up. You are delusional, hillsy.

Nice that you admit-by-default you really did fall for the "World's lungs" crap your fellow left-wingers said.

Now,....go get some functioning Brain cells before you make and even bigger fool of yourself with the false crap you post.

[hillsy]

Never said I never saw a Clutch Pack ever lock up. You are delusional, hillsy.

You asked for it.....

I had not thought about that happening. In the 32 years I have been riding intruders I have never heard of this happening to one and I have had my intruders sit for up to a year with no problems like that. If I ever run into a clutch issue like this again I will check on that type of thing.

Yeah, Me too. Never before in my 45 years of working on Bikes have I encountered a situation with Clutch Plates so very locked up that they didn't break loose with rocking the bike in gear. So this is good information to know that it can happen this badly. And has been said,...at least he has got a spare MC and slave now....so we were of Good Help to him.

And you're the clutch spring guy?

[Herb]

I don't give a shit about the environmental impact or the efficiency but if you've never driven an electric car you should try it. The instantaneous torque is awesome. Very impressive acceleration. I would own one if they were affordable.

Don't get me wrong I love engines.

I just made a 3 day round trip of over 1000 miles. 400 + miles up, over 200 miles while there, and over 450 miles home because the shortest way was closed because of wild fires. I went over a number of passes higher than 5000 ft with a lot of 5.5-6% grade, electric cars use power FAST on that kind of driving.

The trip would have been fucking IMPOSSIBLE with one of the electric cars.

Passed a POS Tesla on I-5 just south of Chico. He was towing a "personal watercraft" at less than 50 miles an hour in a 70 zone, had traffic all screwed up.

BTW, I have driven a Prius, the acceleration is not anywhere near as good as my Equinox. The ones with the acceleration run out of juice REALLY quickly if you start using it.

Electric cars are an answer to a question that should never have been ask, let alone answered.

[HARRIS]

IMAGINE IN A CAR CHASE ... CROOKS ARE RUNNING OUTA ENERGY AND NEED A QUICK 6 HOUR RECHARGE ...

[Designer]

Never said I never saw a Clutch Pack ever lock up. You are delusional, hillsy.

You asked for it.....

I had not thought about that happening. In the 32 years I have been riding intruders I have never heard of this happening to one and I have had my intruders sit for up to a year with no problems like that. If I ever run into a clutch issue like this again I will check on that type of thing.

Yeah, Me too. Never before in my 45 years of working on Bikes have I encountered a situation with Clutch Plates so very locked up that they didn't break loose with rocking the bike in gear. So this is good information to know that it can happen this badly. And has been said,...at least he has got a spare MC and slave now....so we were of Good Help to him.

Wrong again. 1 said I never saw a Clutch pack THIS BAD before,...not that I never ever saw a stuck clutch pack. Proven by my saying what is underlined above.

OUCH! You really know how to make a total Ass of yourself hillsy.

[Tbeck]

SJ, I think given the vast size of the USA that a form of hybrid vehicle (petrol/electric) makes more sense. That way you can recharge the system while running on petrol for a period.
There are a number of problems besides charging, like the amount of torque produced by electric motors verses slippery conditions, practical size, and use of vehicles.
Still a lot of unanswered questions in going electric.

[Overkill777]

I don't give a shit about the environmental impact or the efficiency but if you've never driven an electric car you should try it. The instantaneous torque is awesome. Very impressive acceleration. I would own one if they were affordable.

Don't get me wrong I love engines.

I just made a 3 day round trip of over 1000 miles. 400 + miles up, over 200 miles while there, and over 450 miles home because the shortest way was closed because of wild fires. I went over a number of passes higher than 5000 ft with a lot of 5.5-6% grade, electric cars use power FAST on that kind of driving.

The trip would have been fucking IMPOSSIBLE with one of the electric cars.

Passed a POS Tesla on I-5 just south of Chico. He was towing a "personal watercraft" at less than 50 miles an hour in a 70 zone, had traffic all screwed up.

BTW, I have driven a Prius, the acceleration is not anywhere near as good as my Equinox. The ones with the acceleration run out of juice REALLY quickly if you start using it.

Electric cars are an answer to a question that should never have been ask, let alone answered.

They are not for long distance travel, obviously.

But for a daily driver it could make sense for some people.

I drove a Tesla. There is no comparison there to a Prius.

[hillsy]

Never said I never saw a Clutch Pack ever lock up. You are delusional, hillsy.

You asked for it.....

I had not thought about that happening. In the 32 years I have been riding intruders I have never heard of this happening to one and I have had my intruders sit for up to a year with no problems like that. If I ever run into a clutch issue like this again I will check on that type of thing.

Yeah, Me too. Never before in my 45 years of working on Bikes have I encountered a situation with Clutch Plates so very locked up that they didn't break loose with rocking the bike in gear. So this is good information to know that it can happen this badly. And has been said,...at least he has got a spare MC and slave now....so we were of Good Help to him.

Wrong again. 1 said I never saw a Clutch pack THIS BAD before,...not that I never ever saw a stuck clutch pack. Proven by my saying what is underlined above.

OUCH! You really know how to make a total Ass of yourself hillsy.

Haha - wiggle time!

Oh well - at least you got the guy to buy a new MC and slave....