Harley Guys

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enforcer
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Harley Guys

Post by enforcer »

Tired of the slight rattle while the bike is idling?

Worried the auto tensioner you have will ratchet up too tight and cause more damage than it's worth?

Sick of the clunk into first gear?

Switch to a Hayden auto tensioner. You'll be pleasantly surprised.
Current rides: 03 HD FLHT & 01 Yamaha XVS650(BIP)
Former: 87 Suzuki VS700, 94 BMW K1100LT & 91 Honda CB250

I don't want to own them all, just ride them all.
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NE_FL
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Re: Harley Guys

Post by NE_FL »

So you're saying that Hayden Enterprises makes a better auto tensioner than the Harley factory? How so? Just curious.

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enforcer
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Re: Harley Guys

Post by enforcer »

NE_FL wrote:So you're saying that Hayden Enterprises makes a better auto tensioner than the Harley factory? How so? Just curious.
The Harley style tensioner is setup so that when there's slack in the chain it automatically ratchets up to take up the slack. Problem being, there need to be a sight amount of slack in the chain to compensate for heat expansion. What happens is it becomes too tight and translates that stress to either the compensator or the press fit crank.
That causes eventual destruction or one or both, usually the compensator.

What the Hayden does differently, in all Harley models by the way, is remove the ratchet. It uses a spring. You preload the tension and it keeps it tight while still allowing for expansion. It also compensates for wear on the nylon shoe. While it still needs adjusted from time to time, it's far less than a manual adjuster without the issues of the HD auto adjuster. I did extensive research before I made my mind up in changing it.

The only thing I found as a flaw is sometimes the spring breaks. If it does, you get excessive rattling. Call up Hayden and they'll send a new one free.
Current rides: 03 HD FLHT & 01 Yamaha XVS650(BIP)
Former: 87 Suzuki VS700, 94 BMW K1100LT & 91 Honda CB250

I don't want to own them all, just ride them all.
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Suzuki Johnny
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Re: Harley Guys

Post by Suzuki Johnny »

enforcer wrote:
NE_FL wrote:So you're saying that Hayden Enterprises makes a better auto tensioner than the Harley factory? How so? Just curious.
The Harley style tensioner is setup so that when there's slack in the chain it automatically ratchets up to take up the slack. Problem being, there need to be a sight amount of slack in the chain to compensate for heat expansion. What happens is it becomes too tight and translates that stress to either the compensator or the press fit crank.
That causes eventual destruction or one or both, usually the compensator.

What the Hayden does differently, in all Harley models by the way, is remove the ratchet. It uses a spring. You preload the tension and it keeps it tight while still allowing for expansion. It also compensates for wear on the nylon shoe. While it still needs adjusted from time to time, it's far less than a manual adjuster without the issues of the HD auto adjuster. I did extensive research before I made my mind up in changing it.

The only thing I found as a flaw is sometimes the spring breaks. If it does, you get excessive rattling. Call up Hayden and they'll send a new one free.





13 Harleys.. Hard to figure out exact mileage on them bikes...some I put more miles than others... but I'm figuring about 50K miles each so that rounds out to be somewhere in the neighbor hood of 600,000 total miles give or take a few thousand and not once...… not once in that entire 56 years of riding Harley's did I ever have to change a chain tensioner..... :bonk: :bonk: :bonk: :cheers: :rag:
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Re: Harley Guys

Post by Travlin »

Holy Necropost Batman.

If it ain't broke, fix it till it is.

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franktiregod
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Re: Harley Guys

Post by franktiregod »

Suzuki Johnny wrote:
enforcer wrote:
NE_FL wrote:So you're saying that Hayden Enterprises makes a better auto tensioner than the Harley factory? How so? Just curious.
The Harley style tensioner is setup so that when there's slack in the chain it automatically ratchets up to take up the slack. Problem being, there need to be a sight amount of slack in the chain to compensate for heat expansion. What happens is it becomes too tight and translates that stress to either the compensator or the press fit crank.
That causes eventual destruction or one or both, usually the compensator.

What the Hayden does differently, in all Harley models by the way, is remove the ratchet. It uses a spring. You preload the tension and it keeps it tight while still allowing for expansion. It also compensates for wear on the nylon shoe. While it still needs adjusted from time to time, it's far less than a manual adjuster without the issues of the HD auto adjuster. I did extensive research before I made my mind up in changing it.

The only thing I found as a flaw is sometimes the spring breaks. If it does, you get excessive rattling. Call up Hayden and they'll send a new one free.





13 Harleys.. Hard to figure out exact mileage on them bikes...some I put more miles than others... but I'm figuring about 50K miles each so that rounds out to be somewhere in the neighbor hood of 600,000 total miles give or take a few thousand and not once...… not once in that entire 56 years of riding Harley's did I ever have to change a chain tensioner..... :bonk: :bonk: :bonk: :cheers: :rag:
Do you have a TC? Just curious. Because I have heard of TC that went 60k or more with no issues then I have heard of some with 20k that had issues.

I have a compensator going bad on mine right now at 40,000 miles.

I was going to use the Baker brand replacement. HD knows about this and the cam tensioner issue. They throw Band Aids at it from everything I have seen.

Why not just use a good quality part from the start? Makes no sense to me.

Travlin
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Re: Harley Guys

Post by Travlin »

From what I can gather the TC cam tensioner issue was prior to 07. They went to hyd actuated and a roller chain. (I hope, I have a 07)

Primary tensioner seems to be a main't issue, shoe replacement from time to time.

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hillsy
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Re: Harley Guys

Post by hillsy »

I know for sure the 06 had the issue with the tensioner that wore down from anywhere after 20k miles. My buddy got about 70k miles out of his before he rebuilt it. It was on borrowed time at that point.

navigator
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Re: Harley Guys

Post by navigator »

IMO, opening an engine, any engine, to replace internal parts, is NOT simply a "maintenance issue".
When internals break, that's called a failure.

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Re: Harley Guys

Post by Travlin »

You are right breaking is failure. Wear items, not so much.

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hillsy
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Re: Harley Guys

Post by hillsy »

Here's how the spring loaded tensioners wear:

Image

Image

If / when they wear down to the pin then the whole thing grenades.

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navigator
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Re: Harley Guys

Post by navigator »

Planned Obsolescence.

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hillsy
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Re: Harley Guys

Post by hillsy »

navigator wrote:Planned Obsolescence.
Probably more like they were not expecting anyone to put those sort of miles on one of their bikes so it would never be a problem.....

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Re: Harley Guys

Post by navigator »

Just build it up with JB Weld, and slap it back together.
20K, 40K, or even 60K is not a lot of miles.

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Re: Harley Guys

Post by Travlin »

Ya know, I wonder now.

We never split cases on the 14s so I don't recall anyone talking about chain tensioners. They have to have a shoe of some sort I would think. I remember several scoots over 200k on the purple board with no engine issues.

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Re: Harley Guys

Post by hillsy »

Travlin wrote:Ya know, I wonder now.

We never split cases on the 14s so I don't recall anyone talking about chain tensioners. They have to have a shoe of some sort I would think. I remember several scoots over 200k on the purple board with no engine issues.

If you mean the Intruder 1400's then the cam chain arrangement is totally different.

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Re: Harley Guys

Post by Travlin »

I just looked and yes they are different, of course but are still shoes that the chain runs against. After 33 years I wonder about the integrity of the material on mine.

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hillsy
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Re: Harley Guys

Post by hillsy »

Most Jap bikes run overhead cams which means the cam chains are far longer and the tensioners are slipper types that tension the chain over a 6 to 8 inch stretch. The HD tensioner in the pics above is only about an inch and a half so it's going to wear down pretty quick.

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franktiregod
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Re: Harley Guys

Post by franktiregod »

Travlin wrote:From what I can gather the TC cam tensioner issue was prior to 07. They went to hyd actuated and a roller chain. (I hope, I have a 07)

Primary tensioner seems to be a main't issue, shoe replacement from time to time.

Depends on your definition of prior.

Yes in 07 they went to hydraulic but they STILL have problems. It just delays it a little longer. Now you start checking them around 60k instead of 20k as before.

So is that really fixed? Not in my book it isnt.

If the gear drive that is sold aftermarket is so much better that should be what HD puts in at the factory.

Maybe I am spoiled after decades of "jap bikes" but tearing into an engine with less than 100k is not a good thing. And its certainly not a bike that you would pay premium price for.

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Re: Harley Guys

Post by hillsy »

franktiregod wrote:
Travlin wrote:From what I can gather the TC cam tensioner issue was prior to 07. They went to hyd actuated and a roller chain.8 (I hope, I have a 07)

Primary tensioner seems to be a main't issue, shoe replacement from time to time.

Depends on your definition of prior.

Yes in 07 they went to hydraulic but they STILL have problems. It just delays it a little longer. Now you start checking them around 60k instead of 20k as before.

So is that really fixed? Not in my book it isnt.

If the gear drive that is sold aftermarket is so much better that should be what HD puts in at the factory.

Maybe I am spoiled after decades of "jap bikes" but tearing into an engine with less than 100k is not a good thing. And its certainly not a bike that you would pay premium price for.
First off, changing the tensioner is not really tearing into the engine as such. Yes, there's a bit of stuff to remove to get to it but it's not like ripping off the heads or splitting the cases.

Second about the gear drive is that if the crank flexes they can bind and destroy themselves. It's unlikely in a stock motor, but if you go for a bigger bore (like my buddy did) then it can become an issue.

The biggest problem with the spring loaded tensioner in the HD is you have no way to check it other than taking it out. You don't know how much its worn or when it will need replacement.

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