85 Intruder No Start Condition

[hillsy]

No one is dissing the OP Herb - if you read all the posts you will see that.

Carbs can be bastards to clean at the best of times - they get more complicated when they've been sitting for years.

Telling the guy he has done enough cleaning when he hasn't even removed the idle mixture screws is just bad advice. The bike won't even run without choke FFS - he'll just end up having to take them off again and get pissed off. Been there too many times....

Anyway - SLANDRO - while you have the carbs off it's a good time to inspect the intake rubbers.

[SLANDRO]

Small update.
Took the next step on the float pin "splint job" (thanks for the tips Designer)
I went ahead and scuffed up the surrounding area around the break so the weld has something to bite onto (dont know how clear it is in the pic). I used the edges of a triangle file to do this. And where ever I wasn't able to get the file in, I just used the edge of a small flat head screwdriver to gouge the surface a bit. So, it should be a better repair than my first attempt.

This was the end result


Put the carb back in the clamp with light pressure, since it's already glued on. Will leave it there for a couple more days before cleaning and reassembly.
To avoid possible headache, as mentioned by hillsy, skipped the dip and manually "cleaned" the forward carb outside body by lightly scraping the body with some degreaser and carb clean and small flat head. Not perfect but looks better (forgot to clean the accelerator pump thing cover there, I keep it seperate with the diaphragm. I'll get it later). (o Once I went through the carb outside. I cleaned all orifices and insides with carb cleaner. The upper carb wasn't too bad even when I pulled it the first time. Not a ton of varnish or anything.

And this is the little kit that I have been using. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, when the brush is to big to get in there, I just use the little wires.

I have some small copper shear wire, about 28 gauge, that I use for the small passages. Copper works best for cleaning the gunk out of the passages because steel wire can gouge or enlarge small orfices that copper won't.

Another great piece. I will get some of this witre and keep it in my little carb cleaning kit box for the future. Also for the RTV diaphragm trick, GOLD Thank you. And I thought I was crafty haha.

while you have the carbs off it's a good time to inspect the intake rubbers.

Might as well right. I will try to get them off tonight and post some pics. I will look at the edge where the "pipe" meets the flange. Anything else in particular I should look for on the boots?
Again thank you guys in helping me with the carbs and in teaching me all new tricks.

[hillsy]

Anything else in particular I should look for on the boots?

Basically cracks or tears in the rubbers that would allow any air leaks. And if they surface mount on the head with O rings then that is always a place to pay particular attention to.

They tend to go hard with age as well so depending on the cost it's always nice to have new ones (some are pretty cheap, some not cheap...)

[Designer]

Small update.
Took the next step on the float pin "splint job" (thanks for the tips Designer)
I went ahead and scuffed up the surrounding area around the break so the weld has something to bite onto (dont know how clear it is in the pic). I used the edges of a triangle file to do this. And where ever I wasn't able to get the file in, I just used the edge of a small flat head screwdriver to gouge the surface a bit. So, it should be a better repair than my first attempt.
Put the carb back in the clamp with light pressure, since it's already glued on. Will leave it there for a couple more days before cleaning and reassembly.

Looks like a nice job there, SLANDRO. Good idea to rough-up the surfaces to promote better adherence, too.

For my Experience, you've done a good job of re-enforcing the all-too-easy-to-rebreak Post.

.... Once I went through the carb outside. I cleaned all orifices and insides with carb cleaner. The upper carb wasn't too bad even when I pulled it the first time. Not a ton of varnish or anything.

Which all goes to show you did a Bang Up Job when you cleaned them Three Times the first time. No matter how long it's been there, the Varnish dissolves in contact with the Carb Cleaner. And when dissolved, it readily flows out even then Tiniest Orifices well when using Air Pressure. Being it dissolves well, and that you cleaned them Three Times, not just once,... it more than likely you had Clean Idle Circuits after your First Triple Cleaning, like your pictures showed. Thanks for taking them, they helped us.

Commendable work there!

I have some small copper shear wire, about 28 gauge, that I use for the small passages. Copper works best for cleaning the gunk out of the passages because steel wire can gouge or enlarge small orfices that copper won't.

Another great piece. I will get some of this witre and keep it in my little carb cleaning kit box for the future. Also for the RTV diaphragm trick, GOLD Thank you. And I thought I was crafty haha.

Yes, Herb does have a Great Deal of experience we can all benefit from.
If I may add, I Source my Small Single Copper from Stranded 14 gauge House Wire. Single Stands seems to be a nice size, it's easy to come by and you can make longer pieces than the wire from a Wire Brush is if needs be.

Again thank you guys in helping me with the carbs and in teaching me all new tricks.

You are Most Welcome. Everyone here has Professional-level Experience to share.

[hillsy]

.... Once I went through the carb outside. I cleaned all orifices and insides with carb cleaner. The upper carb wasn't too bad even when I pulled it the first time. Not a ton of varnish or anything.

Which all goes to show you did a Bang Up Job when you cleaned them Three Times the first time. No matter how long it's been there, the Varnish dissolves in contact with the Carb Cleaner. And when dissolved, it readily flows out even then Tiniest Orifices well when using Air Pressure. Being it dissolves well, and that you cleaned them Three Times, not just once,... it more than likely you had Clean Idle Circuits after your First Triple Cleaning, like your pictures showed. Thanks for taking them, they helped us.

Fingers crossed you got all the passageways clean - 15 years sitting can actually block carbs up enough to ruin them.

[SLANDRO]

Got a little more in this evening.
Took the intake boots off for a closer inpspection as suggested.
No cracks outside or inside the boot. Nothing to note where the intake meets the flange.
Only thing noticeable was at the mating surface of the lower boot.
Upper boot before (not too dirty)

After

Lower boot before

After

Lower boot mating surface

After

Upper boot mating surface. (again wasn't al that dirty)

For my Experience, you've done a good job of re-enforcing the all-too-easy-to-rebreak Post.

I feel good about it too. It should hold up nice this time

like your pictures showed. Thanks for taking them, they helped us.

Commendable work there!

Definetely. I find it important that what I am seeing is seen by the rest as best as possible to get quality info. So thank you guys.

If I may add, I Source my Small Single Copper from Stranded 14 gauge House Wire. Single Stands seems to be a nice size, it's easy to come by and you can make longer pieces than the wire from a Wire Brush is if needs be.

'nough said. I can get some easily.

Fingers crossed you got all the passageways clean - 15 years sitting can actually block carbs up enough to ruin them.

Same. Im optimistic though. I have no doubt that it was sitting for a long time, and that can cause issues. Like I mentioned before, the diaphragm slide was basically seized inside the carb because of it. The throttle wouldn't budge (wish I would've taken pics of that). It was pretty bad. But I got the slide out, cleaned and it actuates in there as it should. So I have gone through them now a number of times. Poking through everywhich orifice like mad. However, given the warning, I am more aware when cleaning and paying closer attention.
So now, just have to wait for the weld to cure for a couple of days so that I can get started on that one and proceed to the reassembly/installation.

[Designer]

Got a little more in this evening.

For my Experience, you've done a good job of re-enforcing the all-too-easy-to-rebreak Post.

I feel good about it too. It should hold up nice this time

Yup, It's not easy to keep the viscous JB Weld up along the sides of the post while it's initially curing until it stops flowing downwards. I see you know how.

like your pictures showed. Thanks for taking them, they helped us.
Commendable work there!

Definitely. I find it important that what I am seeing is seen by the rest as best as possible to get quality info. So thank you guys.

Good attitude. The Better the Pictures, the better we can understand your problems,...the better our suggestions, eh?.

If I may add, I Source my Small Single Copper from Stranded 14 gauge House Wire. Single Stands seems to be a nice size, it's easy to come by and you can make longer pieces than the wire from a Wire Brush is if needs be.

'nough said. I can get some easily.

Yup, I have found in all the many dozens of Carbs I have cleaned/rebuilt, that the longer wire makes it much easier to twist/turn/rotate it inside the passages. Sometimes even folding it over for the Larger Diameter Passages and thus creating tool more like a Plumbers Snake to work the Side Walls better.

Fingers crossed you got all the passageways clean - 15 years sitting can actually block carbs up enough to ruin them.

Same. Im optimistic though. I have no doubt that it was sitting for a long time, and that can cause issues. Like I mentioned before, the diaphragm slide was basically seized inside the carb because of it. The throttle wouldn't budge (wish I would've taken pics of that). It was pretty bad. But I got the slide out, cleaned and it actuates in there as it should. So I have gone through them now a number of times. Poking through everywhich orifice like mad. However, given the warning, I am more aware when cleaning and paying closer attention.
So now, just have to wait for the weld to cure for a couple of days so that I can get started on that one and proceed to the reassembly/installation.

JB Weld achieves sufficient strength in about 24 hours....certainly enough for the nominal stresses the Post has.
Since no particulate matter gets inside these passages while the carbs is sitting, I have found that it is oxidation that might cause/add to issues
( beyond the easily dissolvable varnish). And that is Local Climate specific.
When rebuilding a Triple Deuce Intake Set of Carbs (Tri-power) on a 389 Pontiac it was near the Ocean and I could see the salt problems on the outside before I went inside and saw somewhat similar Saw similar with the Carter AFB's on a Big Block Mopar, and the Rochester Quadrajet on a Cadillac in the same town. Not so on all the Carbs I rebuilt when I lived more inland, away from higher humidity. Rare is it to find Carbs that are ruined by merely sitting.

While I do not know your local climate, but yours look nothing like that which I saw affected by such High Humidity, so I wouldn't take seriously the idea that your Carbs were blocked up enough to ruin them.

Keep the Good Work up!

[SLANDRO]

Big update guys. She started up.
So after I took out the IMS, replaced o-ring, did post repair, another cleaning and reassembly, along with new spark plugs I installed the carbs and nothing. I tried moving this and that (IMS, Sync cable etc.) nothing.
So I went with hillsy's recommendation. I took the carbs back off and took them all apart. Got the jets out and even the throttle blades. Went and got myself a 6.5l ultrasonic cleaner. Got for $50. Threw up a concoction of 50:50 mix Pinesol:Water with a splash of degreaser. Heated up to ~150* and gave the bodies 2 30 min cycles.
I didn't take pics of the after but much much better.
Now upon taking the jets out, these 2 were plugged up. Didn't take pics of mine but they look like these.
They were plugged hard with crud in there. So getting these cleaned along with the u-sonic clean for the passages of these jets I think is what did the trick.


So thank you guys for helping and sharing knowledge
So now that it is running I know that the balance is next. However the idle is pretty high. Do you guys set it with vacuum or with a tach (I have both meters). I will go and do my own research and DD so If there is a thread for this already, my apologies. But you guys know your stuff

[hillsy]

[Designer]

Big update guys. She started up.
Now upon taking the jets out, these 2 were plugged up. Didn't take pics of mine but they look like these.
They were plugged hard with crud in there. So getting these cleaned along with the u-sonic clean for the passages of these jets I think is what did the trick.

Now this is what we all wanted to hear!. Glad you are Back on The Road Again.

Question though. I thought you had said you took out the jets and soaked them a while back?

Thanks for all the responses. So I'll go down the list.
3.The cleaning was done with carb cleaner and compressed air. I took it apart as much as I saw I could. Pulled all of the jets and little parts. Left them sitting in a bottle submerged in carb cleaner, bought myself a carb cleaning brush kit on amazon to properly clean all orifices on carb body. Rinsed with carb cleaner and blew out with air. Im pretty confident in the cleaning I did, but I could be wrong.

Since all the Jets were pulled, and cleaned back then, but it didn't get the "Hard Crud".....there's a better-than-even chance it was just those Jets that were your problem. I mean,...look at The The Thorough Cleaning Job You Did of the Carb Bodies,... Three Times in total. That surely had the Passages All Cleaned,...as was the Idle (pilot) Adjustment Screw you posted a picture of. It was just the very few Jets you just posted that were the problem.

I'm not faulting your work,...not at all. You've done an Exacting and Technically Admirable job here.
The orifices in those Jets you just posted pictures of are Super Tiny. Just about any person who is not a Professional Mechanic could miss the blockage in them.

If only the "hard crud' could have been detected when you first pulled the Jets out. You could have saved all the Time, Trouble and Expense of the U-sonic Cleaner & stuff that was suggested you do and just worked on the Jets alone. After the Three times you Cleaned The Bodies,..looks like is was they,...not the internal passages,... were your problem.

[hillsy]

If the pilot jets have crud on them it's a strong indicator the passages are full of it as well. CV carbs can be quite tricky to get clean - as you've discovered - they're not like any old car carb that's for sure.

Nice work - your ultrasonic cleaner will come in handy for a bunch of stuff - not just F'd up carbs

[SLANDRO]

Question though. I thought you had said you took out the jets and soaked them a while back?

Since all the Jets were pulled, and cleaned back then, but it didn't get the "Hard Crud".....there's a better-than-even chance it was just those Jets that were your problem. I mean,...look at The The Thorough Cleaning Job You Did of the Carb Bodies,... Three Times in total. That surely had the Passages All Cleaned,...as was the Idle (pilot) Adjustment Screw you posted a picture of. It was just the very few Jets you just posted that were the problem.

I'm not faulting your work,...not at all. You've done an Exacting and Technically Admirable job here.
The orifices in those Jets you just posted pictures of are Super Tiny. Just about any person who is not a Professional Mechanic could miss the blockage in them.

If only the "hard crud' could have been detected when you first pulled the Jets out. You could have saved all the Time, Trouble and Expense of the U-sonic Cleaner & stuff that was suggested you do and just worked on the Jets alone. After the Three times you Cleaned The Bodies,..looks like is was they,...not the internal passages,... were your problem.

Yes thats right. I pulled all of the jets out from the beginning. I soaked and cleaned them up well. Each time (3x) that I dug into the carbs, I made sure to hold them up to the light and that the jets were clean. There is no doubt that in my mind that those jets were clean. My suspicion is that because I didn't soak the bodies, the passages were still clogged up. I tried to get the bike to run, it didn't and I left it there for a couple of months. Maybe the passages cleared a bit with fuel pressure and clogged the jets afterwards. Then after sitting for that time, dried up and needed to be taken out for cleaning again. When I soaked the bodies in the U-Sonic not a lot of particles were left, I thought I was going to see more, but these are tiny passages and probably doesn't take much to clog them anyways.

If the pilot jets have crud on them it's a strong indicator the passages are full of it as well.

That's what Im thinking

Nice work - your ultrasonic cleaner will come in handy for a bunch of stuff - not just F'd up carbs

Hell yea. I know I will feel much more confident next time I do a carb for sure. Im planning on throwing my front caliper in there for a cleaning and inspection next.