Engine Removal Question

[rocksandhammers]

Hey I-A, just about ready to get the engine out of the frame. Everything attached to the engine has been disconnected except for the shaft drive and the mounting bolts. I'm hoping to have some friends come help me get it out on Tuesday, but before that happens I had one or two general questions.

First, the way the manual reads, it almost seems like it's not necessary to remove the right side of the frame before removing the engine since it says to pull forward and to the right, but is that actually the case or does the right side frame need to be removed to get the engine out (similar to how this guy does it with his 1400 )? I had to unbolt the front of the right side frame to get the radiator fan out of the bike, but I haven't removed the back bolts yet. The main reason I ask is because if I need to remove the right side frame then I'll need to redo my current setup for holding the bike up. Right now I have it on a lift with ratchet straps holding the frame to the lift at the bottom (the straps just go across the frame, not any part of the engine itself; I can post pics if need be). I originally set it up that way because the lift is very sturdy and it seemed a good idea to have the frame tied down. I guess I just figured I'd be able to lift the engine out of the frame (was thinking of using the 2x4 and ratchet strap to pincer the engine trick that I read about in a different thread). But the right side frame is under the straps, and I don't have anything supporting just the engine block like some wood like the guy in the video.

As I mentioned, I was planning on trying to use some wood and ratchet straps to create places to lift the engine from, and it will be me and three other 200+ lb guys lifting it. I read somewhere the engine dry is somewhere in the 200-250 lb range, so that seems reasonable for several guys to lift, but if I'm mistaken please let me know before I ruin one of my friend's backs (or my own).

Other than that, any tips that anyone has to offer I would appreciate it.

[Herb]

I'm not sure about the 800 but on the 1400 the right-side frame must be taken completely off. The engine has to come forward enough for the rear case to clear the frame in the rear and I had to move the front of the engine to the right as I pulled it out. IFRC I also had to tilt the front of the engine down a little or maybe it was lifting the back of the engine up to clear everything.

Not sure of the weight of the 800 but I was able to lift the 1400 engine by myself, but I was in better shape back then... But never was a Hulk Hogan...

[navigator]

It is easier to remove the engine if that frame side is removed.
If you have all these big guys there, you can move the whole bike.
remove the tank, if you haven't already.
remove the front wheel and the rear wheel on the jack, remove the rear gear and shaft.
remove the right frame.
Lift the whole bike and carefully lay it on the right side, either on blankets or in the grass, pull the front engine mount bolt out.
Lift the bike frame off of the engine.
Then right the engine and move it.

[hillsy]

It is easier to remove the engine if that frame side is removed.
If you have all these big guys there, you can move the whole bike.
remove the tank, if you haven't already.
remove the front wheel and the rear wheel on the jack, remove the rear gear and shaft.
remove the right frame.
Lift the whole bike and carefully lay it on the right side, either on blankets or in the grass, pull the front engine mount bolt out.
Lift the bike frame off of the engine.
Then right the engine and move it.

Yep - pretty much with every bike I've worked on with a cradle frame it's easier to lay the bike on its side and pull the frame off the engine.

[rocksandhammers]

remove the rear gear and shaft.

Are you referring to the final gear removal process described on pg 4-10?

[navigator]

remove the rear gear and shaft.

Are you referring to the final gear removal process described on pg 4-10?

Yes, the final gear and shaft slides out as 1 piece.
Since some 800's were not lubed correctly at the factory, I'd suggest removing the shaft from the final gear and putting MOLY 80 or
Loctite 234227 LOC51048 Moly Paste Anti-Seize Compound on the splines.
Any other grease will boil off in there.

[rocksandhammers]

Great, thanks for all the help. Should have it out today so I'll update with results.

Since some 800's were not lubed correctly at the factory, I'd suggest removing the shaft from the final gear and putting MOLY 80 or
Loctite 234227 LOC51048 Moly Paste Anti-Seize Compound on the splines.
Any other grease will boil off in there.

Whenever I removed the rear wheel I always greased the splines with this (https://www.belray.com/product/waterproof-grease/), will this boil off as you suggest or will it do the trick?

[navigator]

That is a general bearing lubricant, good to 350F.
The splines at the rear of the shaft get way hotter than that, my experience has been that it will not last.
The Loctite 51048 has a high molybdenum content and is good for high pressure and is good to 750F.
Honda used to make MOLY 60 which is now discontinued. It broke down at 750F.
Honda replaced MOLY 60 with MOLY 77 which is only good to 450F.
Enduralast Lube 477 is also 60% moly and comes in a small tube.

Lots of discussions of this topic on motorcycle forums if you do a search.
Bottom line is you need a Moly based grease on driveshaft splines.

[Herb]

I have ridden my 1400s in 100+ temps at 80+ on the freeway and the differential housing has never been too hot to touch.

I used a pump oil can and pumped a bunch of STP into the cavity, that was when I changed the original out at about 170K. The used diff that I put in has about 80K since I installed it and the bike it came off of had 44K on the odometer.

[hillsy]

I have ridden my 1400s in 100+ temps at 80+ on the freeway and the differential housing has never been too hot to touch.

I used a pump oil can and pumped a bunch of STP into the cavity, that was when I changed the original out at about 170K. The used diff that I put in has about 80K since I installed it and the bike it came off of had 44K on the odometer.

I'd have to agree - 350f is the temp of a moderate oven and there's little chance of a diff getting up to that temp unless something is seriously wrong.

[navigator]

The diff doesn't get that hot, but the splines are under high pressure and sliding. I have one that totally wore away to the point that it would not drive....just rotate with a loud clicking.
I use Moly 60, JMO, to each his own.

Also, the grease component in the paste melts off but the moly gets imbedded in the metal and acts as a dry film lubricant.

[Herb]

The diff doesn't get that hot, but the splines are under high pressure and sliding. I have one that totally wore away to the point that it would not drive....just rotate with a loud clicking.
I use Moly 60, JMO, to each his own.

Also, the grease component in the paste melts off but the moly gets imbedded in the metal and acts as a dry film lubricant.

That is what happened with my original driveshaft. when I pulled it down it was dry and rusty but it had a lot of miles/years on it.

I found a used diff with the driveshaft for much less than the shaft by itself. When I went to put it in I pumped a bunch of STP oil treatment in it rather than take a chance on ruining the seal by pulling it out.

still going well.

If there is enough lube on it it will never get very hot. With it running in the oil there should never be an issue.

[rocksandhammers]

Sucess!!!




Got it out without any major problems. Now I just have to get it cleaned off and opened up. I do have a couple of questions though.

First, any recommendations on a cheap engine stand? Or maybe a guide for a homemade one if possible? Right now I just have the engine laying on its ride side on a mat on my workbench, but in order to really dig into it I'll need it upright.

Second, any tips or products I should use for cleaning, either the exterior or the components? I figured I'd just carefully wash the grime off the outside with some soap and water, but I already know there is a ton of carbon build up on the exhaust pipes and the piston heads.

Finally, I need some advice on approach. I'm fairly certain my issues have been somewhere in the cylinders. Hopefully just worn piston rings but not sure yet. Should I just try to identify the suspected problem, fix it and get out without messing around too much? Or should I really take everything apart and inspect every component of the engine since I have it out? This is my first time digging into an engine, so I am slightly intimidated, but I've been very diligent about documenting the steps thus far with lots of pictures and making sure to label every nut and bolt. I've done enough wrenching the last few years to feel confident that I can eventually get it put back together and running nicely, but any general advice or things to look out for are greatly appreciated.

Also, I'll check around for some of the moly grease. Better safe than sorry and I'll have plenty of time before the drive shaft goes back in.

[navigator]

I have been successful in removing the driveshaft seal and reusing it.
Then it's just snap-ring pliers for disassembly.
Moly is the preferred method for driveshaft splines, lots of info out there.
A little goes a long way, so you don't need a large container, a tube will do.
I have used a tube of moly 60 on 8 shafts and still have alot left.

As far as engine disassembly....see what you need, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. JMO.