Friend just got an '86 700—tips?

[panamaniac]

Hi friends,

I'm so excited to tell you that after years of reading through posts here and on the old intruderalert site, I finally had an opportunity to give back a little. A friend of mine picked up an '86 700 in great shape—about 10k miles and looks well-maintained, and yesterday brought it over and I helped introduce her to the thing, show her some basic maintenance, and also spot a few issues she'd want to address (one of the tailpipes was basically hanging loose!). Felt super good to be able to give back some of my knowledge. Anyway, while I've repeatedly encouraged her to join this forum, she's not interested, so I figured I'd ask some questions on her behalf.

- In general, any big differences between an 86 700 and my 93 800? They look super duper similar but figured I'd ask

- If the idle has longer times between each "putt" sound, that's probably a situation where we should increase the idle jet, right? See video below—the third start is when she has pulled out the choke, in case that tells you all any useful info. Her only complaint so far has been that it seems to have too low of an idle, stops at stoplights sometimes, etc. She's added a lot of seafoam so far but I think she probably needs to at least adjust the idle jet.
[youtube][/youtube]

- The one non-stock thing I noticed was that (if looking at the bike from in front if it) the right tail pipe twists behind the battery box and ends on the left side, and the left pipe stays on the left side and is cut super short. Is that a common mod? Is it something one does basically for aesthetics/looks? And such a mod wouldn't impact anything carb-related, right?


- I've sent her both the Clymer manual and the Suzuki service manual, but I'm wondering—anyone have a link to the basic owner's manual? That's honestly still my handiest reference for basic stuff, and the only one I've bothered to print out, so I'd love to send her that too if I can track it down. Even a different year is probably OK, but I can't even find a PDF of my own anymore.

Thanks!

[Herb]

It may need a little tweak on the idle jets but it sounds to me like the idle is set way too low. According to the manual, the idle is supposed to be 1100 plus/minus 100. It sounds to me like it is at 700-800.

As for the manual, at the top of this forum, there is a link to what appears to be the Suzuki manual for the 700/800 intruder.

[navigator]

There is a thumb wheel on the rear carb on the right side.
Turn it clockwise to raise the idle.

The left side exhaust has a muffler (on the right rear now). The right side exhaust has no muffler at all. That imbalance will make it run like shit.
It looks like an aftermarket Cobra exhaust system missing one muffler.

[panamaniac]

It may need a little tweak on the idle jets but it sounds to me like the idle is set way too low. According to the manual, the idle is supposed to be 1100 plus/minus 100. It sounds to me like it is at 700-800.

As for the manual, at the top of this forum, there is a link to what appears to be the Suzuki manual for the 700/800 intruder.

Thanks Herb—I'm familiar with that manual, was asking about the simple, short owner's manual, which I think is a thing. But yeah, sounds like we should increase the idle then, thanks!

Nav, thanks for the honest (though not very encouraging!) assessment. So in her shoes you'd just go shop for cheap used stock exhaust I'm guessing? Or try to further modify/unmodify the modified exhaust??

[hillsy]

So it actually has only one muffler on one cylinder?

That's 99% of the problem right there.

[navigator]

I'd go stock exhaust from the heads back.
JMO

[panamaniac]

Thanks all. Just to idiot proof this, does anyone have a pic they can post of there the idle adjust thumbscrew is? And I shouldn’t have to remove the seat or side panels to access it, correct?

I’ll let her know about the pipe issues. Sounds like if she needs to save money she could try to track down just a muffler..but honestly I don’t know where it would go since it would kinda hit the other one...or maybe they come curved or something. But sounds like ideally she just gets oem ones.

[Herb]

Thanks all. Just to idiot proof this, does anyone have a pic they can post of there the idle adjust thumbscrew is? And I shouldn’t have to remove the seat or side panels to access it, correct?

I’ll let her know about the pipe issues. Sounds like if she needs to save money she could try to track down just a muffler..but honestly I don’t know where it would go since it would kinda hit the other one...or maybe they come curved or something. But sounds like ideally she just gets oem ones.

The stock system would be best.
On the system she has the front cylinder muffler sits below the other one.

[navigator]

Thanks all. Just to idiot proof this, does anyone have a pic they can post of there the idle adjust thumbscrew is? And I shouldn’t have to remove the seat or side panels to access it, correct?

I’ll let her know about the pipe issues. Sounds like if she needs to save money she could try to track down just a muffler..but honestly I don’t know where it would go since it would kinda hit the other one...or maybe they come curved or something. But sounds like ideally she just gets oem ones.

Lower left in this pic, hangs vertically below the carb.
Brass colored thumbwheel, on rear carb, right side of bike, about 3/8" diameter.

[panamaniac]

Thanks all. Just to idiot proof this, does anyone have a pic they can post of there the idle adjust thumbscrew is? And I shouldn’t have to remove the seat or side panels to access it, correct?

I’ll let her know about the pipe issues. Sounds like if she needs to save money she could try to track down just a muffler..but honestly I don’t know where it would go since it would kinda hit the other one...or maybe they come curved or something. But sounds like ideally she just gets oem ones.

Lower left in this pic, hangs vertically below the carb.
Brass colored thumbwheel, on rear carb, right side of bike, about 3/8" diameter.

Perfect, thanks so much, Nav!

[panamaniac]

Update on mufflers: understanding that she’s on a tight budget, she does want to address this issue. If anyone has a set of used oem pipes they’re willing to let go for a good price we can talk—otherwise her plan for now is just to add the missing muffler back on. Seems like her options there would be to (a) get the RIGHT muffler (ie so it matches the other one) or (b) get two new slip-on mufflers and install those (assuming they won’t run into each other, etc. Is that correct?

The issue I'm running into at the moment is ID'ing the pipes she currently has. I actually don't think they're cobras—the pic below is the only Cobras I can find with both pipes on one side and I think they're different than what she has since based on the pic it looks like one solid piece of steel the whole way, with no place where a muffler is slipped on (or maybe that's just how they make it look in the pics??)



Closest I've found so far may be the Jardine Rumblers, but I have only found one pic so far and it's hard to know for sure:

[navigator]

Update on mufflers: understanding that she’s on a tight budget, she does want to address this issue. If anyone has a set of used oem pipes they’re willing to let go for a good price we can talk—otherwise her plan for now is just to add the missing muffler back on. Seems like her options there would be to (a) get the RIGHT muffler (ie so it matches the other one) or (b) get two new slip-on mufflers and install those (assuming they won’t run into each other, etc. Is that correct?

Finding the correct missing muffler may be a chore, they are aftermarket.
A set of slip-ons are usually 2 sided, you have a one sided system so one pipes entry is curved (the one you have) and the other is straight (missing)
For stock exhaust you will need both head pipes and both mufflers.
A few sets on ebay now for ~ $225.
check pics closely, a few are drilled and hacked up.
This is not too bad:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/00-Suzuki-VS-8 ... 2118!US!-1
Just alot of work.

[panamaniac]

Wow, you already responded, thanks Nav! See the updated post above—yeah, IDing seems like the hard part here, IF she's trying to JUST replace the one muffler. If her pipes were two sided, buying a different set of slip ons would be less of an issue b/c they'd just have to fit alongside her bike rather than not run into each other, right?

Your last comment was "a lot of work"—did you mean a lot of work to replace the exhausts with oem? Given how exposed the exhausts are I figured it'd be a fairly easy job.

Here's a dumb question, btw—disregarding street legality and it being too loud—would her performance actually IMPROVE if she removed the OTHER muffler, so that at least each half of the engine is on equal footing so to speak? Put differently, I guess I don't understand why one missing muffler would make a bike run less well—is it simply because the exhaust will leave more easily for one cylinder, hence it'll be cooler and like, not in sync with the other?

[panamaniac]

Additional pic below, from https://www.motorcycleid.com/jardine/ru ... l#features.

So I think I've found a few pics now that SHOW what she has, but even on those webpages they're usually actually SELLING something that's NOT what's in the pic, lol. Very confusing.

[panamaniac]

Sorry, one more question from my friend—will she "hurt" the bike if she continues riding it in its current condition until she's able to fix the muffler/pipe situation? This is somewhat related to my previous question, Nav, about removing the other muffler—I think I just need a better understanding of how mufflers work generally, perhaps!

Edit: This seems like a good partial answer about the impact of removing mufflers. Agree, Nav?

From here: https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/m ... t%20system.

Should I run drag pipes or an open exhaust?
Maybe. If you’re competing at the drag strip or track, probably. If you’re anywhere else... probably not! Realistically, open or unmuffled pipes make horsepower high in the rev range, where the engine is expelling the highest amount of exhaust. However, because they do not promote good velocity in lower portions of the rev range, they tend to yield worse performance in typical street use. Tuning the bike is very difficult with drag pipes, and almost all open exhausts leave weird “flat spots” in the torque curve where power is delivered erratically, or can even decrease!
If you’re honest with yourself, you’ll probably find that wide-open throttle most of the time is not really how you ride on the street.

[navigator]

Yup, they look like Jardine rumblers, maybe you can find a replacement, or the whole setup...used. Probably not cheap.
IIRC Jardine is no longer in business.

"would her performance actually IMPROVE if she removed the OTHER muffler?"
IMO No, that revzilla article has alot of information.

"will she "hurt" the bike if she continues riding it in its current condition until she's able to fix the muffler/pipe situation?"
IMO she could possibly burn an exhaust valve without the back pressure a muffler provides.
Revzilla has it right.

"did you mean a lot of work to replace the exhausts with oem?"
if you install a stock setup, you first remove everything that is there.
When you hang the exhaust, the mufflers get hung and attached together in front of the battery box first. The head pipes go on last.
If the head pipes are installed first, you cant slide the exhaust on.
I suggest new gaskets at the head, and between the headpipe and muffler. JMO

[panamaniac]

Thanks so much Nav—sorry I didn’t reply sooner, I was IMMEDIATELY relaying your messages to the owner, lol. Really hoping we can just find her a slip on that works for now just since she’s on a budget

[navigator]

Any slip on will help. Beats an open pipe.

[YoDude]

Any slip on will help. Beats an open pipe.

Nav has a good point, this might be easier though.

Take off the remaining tail pipe (muffler, whatever ya wanna call it). At least you'll be able to tune it (sort of) properly that way.
You'll be able to get it mostly in sync and balanced out, adjust the idle and such. AT the least it'll give you a good starting point as far as getting it in tune.

Meanwhile look on ebay or something and see if you can find another set of Jardines for cheap.
Finding a decent set of nice stock pipes for these bikes is nearly impossible.

JMPO

Yo-

[hillsy]

You could probably pick up a pair of Sportster mufflers for next to nothing and they would work OK.