Clutch issue / Help?

Scotty
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Clutch issue / Help?

Post by Scotty »

Basic info on the bike:
2001 VS800
16,500 Miles.
K&N Drop in filters
Aftermarket exhaust

Yesterday Was one of our nicer days. Naturally I took advantage. I notice at 30 miles into my ride, the friction zone from the lever was getting worse. Starting in engage later than normal. By mile 80, I notice during heavy acceleration the clutch would began to slip. Decided to just head back home to prevent any damage.

So rewind two months ago when I bought the bike. The clutch seemed to operate great. It engaged almost as soon as the lever was being released. I inspected the fluid and found it was extremely contaminated. Very dark in color and even has some sort of "milky" substance in the fluid. I had to drain the fluid and clean using Q-tips. Thought I did a great flush using almost an entire bottle of dot 4. The clutch engaged at the same point after thins. At that time, I also changed the oil. (yes, with motorcycle oil).

So today I decided to take the cover off to inspect the fluid once again. To find that it looked almost black in color. So I starting to bleed the fluid once again. As the level got lower, I realized I couldn't see one of the two holes on the bottom. So I took a small wire and just tried to gently clan that area. Once I started to engage the lever, a bunch of black stuff came out. ( I will also note that fluid will shoot out of the smaller hole when I depress the lever. I don't seem the remember it doing that last time) The picture was taken at this point. The oil looks to be clean with no noticeable debris.
Image

So I'm wondering if my clutch plates and springs are actually worn, or if my hydraulic system is just contaminated and causing the clutch to fully engage at this point. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

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WintrSol
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Re: Clutch issue / Help?

Post by WintrSol »

Your clutch lines are now about 17 years old, or more.While that means nothing to the metal tubes, the flexible parts could easily be rotting away on the inside. This could account for the pressure relief hold blockage, and the color. There could also be a build up of junk in the slave cylinder, which, much like your reservoir, requires mechanical cleaning to remove. Personally, I'd replace the lines, and also take the slave apart while the system is 'dry'.
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Fred
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Re: Clutch issue / Help?

Post by Fred »

FYI I have a small flexible pipe from the master to a junction just by the neck of the bike where it joins to solid car type copper brake pipe. It goes along under the tank and down past the pump. I have purposely taken it well clear of the exhaust so it no longer boils.

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Re: Clutch issue / Help?

Post by WintrSol »

Fred wrote:I have purposely taken it well clear of the exhaust so it no longer boils.
I wonder why Suzuki didn't do this, to begin with?
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Scotty
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Re: Clutch issue / Help?

Post by Scotty »

Fred wrote:FYI I have a small flexible pipe from the master to a junction just by the neck of the bike where it joins to solid car type copper brake pipe. It goes along under the tank and down past the pump. I have purposely taken it well clear of the exhaust so it no longer boils.
That's not a bad idea! I have the entire hose off currently and the master / slave cylinder off. There was a lot of build up in it. I'll probay end up replacing it and see if the fixed the issue. I still need to inspect the lines too. That's my goal for the weekend. :putput:

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Re: Clutch issue / Help?

Post by Swcoinguy »

Fred wrote:FYI I have a small flexible pipe from the master to a junction just by the neck of the bike where it joins to solid car type copper brake pipe. It goes along under the tank and down past the pump. I have purposely taken it well clear of the exhaust so it no longer boils.
From the factory my '02 has the hydraulic hose(I upgraded to stainless braided)that ends at the neck. From there it is hard line all the way to the slave. What did you do different? I haven't had any issues with heat but I'm curious where your line is running vs where Suzuki ran it. Mine runs under the tank and turns down just before the rear air box. It's nowhere near the exhaust.

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Re: Clutch issue / Help?

Post by sgtcall »

Don't forget there are rubber seals in the master cylinder that can break down over time also.
Something like this
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Clutch-Master-C ... zI&vxp=mtr

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Fred
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Re: Clutch issue / Help?

Post by Fred »

Swcoinguy wrote:
Fred wrote:FYI I have a small flexible pipe from the master to a junction just by the neck of the bike where it joins to solid car type copper brake pipe. It goes along under the tank and down past the pump. I have purposely taken it well clear of the exhaust so it no longer boils.
From the factory my '02 has the hydraulic hose(I upgraded to stainless braided)that ends at the neck. From there it is hard line all the way to the slave. What did you do different? I haven't had any issues with heat but I'm curious where your line is running vs where Suzuki ran it. Mine runs under the tank and turns down just before the rear air box. It's nowhere near the exhaust.
I have an 87 and live in Thailand . I had no idea they did that but I do realize why they did it. Driving in Bangkok was almost impossible on a hot day, I lost use of the clutch regularly. After it cooled it was fine just very inconvenient.

It seemed to me the obvious thing to do.

The original was a full flexi from Master to slave that ran along the frame on the left side just above the exhaust, unless you had twins etc.

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Re: Clutch issue / Help?

Post by WintrSol »

My '05 had two sections of flexible line, with a solid line between them, and a short bit of solid that attached to the slave: https://www.partsoutlaw.com/oemparts/a/ ... r-cylinder
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Re: Clutch issue / Help?

Post by Swcoinguy »

https://www.partsoutlaw.com/oemparts/a/ ... r-cylinder
It's been so long since I've touched my clutch line that I forgot about that short section of flexible hose. I was thinking I had hard line from the neck to the slave but I don't. My apologies on that. Either way my line runs under the tank far from the exhaust and no where near it that I recall. Just for clarification I have stock head pipes and aftermarket slip on mufflers.

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Re: Clutch issue / Help?

Post by Scotty »

So just an update, ( if anyone is following. Or for people who may have issues down the road).

I cleaned the entire system. Master / slave cyl and the lines. Even after a good bleeding job prior, there were a ton of dirt build up in the system. I was able to put it back together yesterday. Took a good hour to bleed the system and get all the air out.

During my test drive, I noticed a huge difference in the hydraulic system and how the clutch engaged and disengaged. Although, the clutch is still slipping.

I notice at about 85% throttle to WOT it will begin to slip. Sounds like im at about 4-5k RPM when it happens, (guessing based off sounds. No tach of course..).

So my next step will be be the clutch replacement. I will be using the Barnett Clutch Plate Kit with Vesrah Heavy Duty Clutch Springs. I've used Barnett on my Vstar in the past and thought they performed well.

When I begin to disassemble, I will post pictures of the old clutch and see what the group thinks! Figured its cheap enough and one less thing to worry about.

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Re: Clutch issue / Help?

Post by WintrSol »

Odds are you only need new springs. The Intruder clutch is known for weak OEM springs, usually around 25-40k miles. The plates should last for more than 100k miles, unless you abuse it.
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Scotty
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Re: Clutch issue / Help?

Post by Scotty »

I typically ride very easy. I don't know how the bike was treated before me though. Maybe a close inspection of the plates will help detirmine that.

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Fred
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Re: Clutch issue / Help?

Post by Fred »

The early clutches were compressed paper types and were bad for grabbing. At about 80% releae the bike would lurch forward, very uncomfortable riding and would get worse the hotter it got.

I replaced mine with a set bought here in Thailand and never had an issue since. That was at least 5 years ago.

Another problem with the 1400 is the relatively small clutch they used for quite a torquey motor. The HD in comparison is a larger diameter.

Also my clutch clears beautifully it will select 1st or neutral as you please at idle. Something I insist on. I hate bikes that you have to kick into neutral just before you stop, or even worse use the kill switch to get neutral.

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Re: Clutch issue / Help?

Post by Scotty »

Image
Image
Image

So, here is what I have. The picture is the very first plate to be removed from the basket. You can see the burnt marks on both sides. The other metal plates are not as bad of shape as this. Although they still have some slight discoloring to them. There was defiantly a burning smell as I removed the engine cover.

With only 16k miles, I wonder if the clutch springs are at fault, or maybe the original owner was just hard on the bike.

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Re: Clutch issue / Help?

Post by WintrSol »

Looks to me that the clutch was mistreated - wheelies, burnouts, and the like. Also, the steel plate looks warped. You can check it with a flat plate of glass and some light oil; if the steel isn't flat, it will show.
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Fred
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Re: Clutch issue / Help?

Post by Fred »

There is 3 definite patches of discoloration that might lead to the wrong springs from the BTL in the wrong place. A carfully study of the manual picture will help.

Yes the steel plates should be flat, I dont know what the oil thing is about,---just a flat sheet glass and feeler guages is they way.

I can smell the burning from here --replace friction plates.

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Re: Clutch issue / Help?

Post by WintrSol »

If you put a thin film of a light clear oil on the steel, then gently rest the glass on it, any gaps that the oil is not squeezed out of will be visible; they may even form Newton's rings around the spots where the oil is squeezed out by the pressure of the glass on the high spots. A feeler gauge will work, too, if you start with a really thin one.
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Fred
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Re: Clutch issue / Help?

Post by Fred »

Well they do have a 'really thin one' and it will give you a measurement and difference between one plate and another.

Scotty
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Re: Clutch issue / Help?

Post by Scotty »

The springs are differnt in size? They looked all the same?

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