Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Spacecoast
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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Spacecoast »

Sundevil36 wrote:I suppose not well enough!
In the video, you were giving it throttle but yet one cylinder was not running. If both carbs are being operated by the throttle cable (check and make sure), then sync is not an issue in terms of both cylinder running (or one cylinder not running). Granted poor carb sync results in an un-smooth engine, and one cylinder maybe not running during idle, but it will not prevent both cylinders from at least running during above idle throttle position. You should be able to determine which cylinder is not running by header temp. Smell that exhaust pipe...do you smell any gas fumes? When running, try spraying in some starter fluid to see if that cylinder comes alive. If it does, then you have a fuel starvation issue, like a kink in the fuel line, stuck float/needle, improper float level, clogged jet, etc. Refrain from pulling in/out the plugs if you have already checked the plugs since you can strip out the threads. If the plugs are ok, then it's either lack of electrical juice to that plug, or a fuel/carb issue.

If the front cylinder is not running, I might suspect a failed fuel pump. The rear can still get gravity fed fuel, but the front will be starved.

Keep the battery charged by using a smart charger.

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Fred
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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Fred »

5 pages of discussion on a cylinder that wont fire. The guys at Thumper talk will be laughing.

I think you are spot on spacecoast and just to speed things up its a new pump, new lines , he has seen if fuel is in the bowl and there was ( a bit) he wont change plugs as he says they are ok. ( master plug reader) I don''t think he tried swapping them.

I assume the plug is dry.

I understand he has changed diam of the fuel lines too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Apparently it has compression and yet wont fire Hmmm I wonder if some thing is still wrong with it!!!!!!!!!!!!

So we got spark, ( dont we? must have checked for that) we got fuel--( a bit) and compression.

So carb is carbing, spark is sparking and pistons are ----- going up and down.

If it were mine I would sacrifice a small helpless animal at midnight and stuff its bloody entrails down the park plug hole. ;IDunno:

Anything but take off the carb and dismantle it. You never know there could be entrails of a small helpless animal been stuffed into it by a previous owner.

Spacecoast
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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Spacecoast »

OK, I have to admit that I posted prior to reading this entire thread. Nonetheless, sure sounds like a fuel starvation issue. When I purchased my used bike I had the tank off (and numerous other parts) for about three weeks before I finally finished going through the bike and getting everything back together. In my enthusiasm to finally get to ride the bike I forgot to re-open the fuel tank petcock. It started up fine but quickly idled like crap and ran on one cylinder, then died. I also ended up having to acquire an OEM fuel pump. Hope that helps. Put the stock fuel lines back on.

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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Sundevil36 »

The only reason I said I stepped down the fuel line inner diameter was because I thought I accidentally bought the wrong size (too large) because the line slipped over the fuel input seemingly too easy. So I went down one mm to see if that made any changes.

I already changed the plugs to brand new ones, I never said I wouldn't change them. I also checked for spark and both are sparking fine (did that early on). Yes the plugs are both dry.

I replaced the fuel pump with a new unit as well, I'll double check for kinked lines but I'm pretty sure I eliminated that.

I have tried the starter fluid in the front cylinder and it did indeed come alive, after about a min of idling as it is now the rear header is hot and the front is lukewarm. It's got to be the carb, maybe a torn diaphragm under the silver plate? I couldn't get to that because the screws were stuck good.

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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by navigator »

Certainly could be the diaphragm on the slider.
Use a handheld impact driver to shock the screws...or grab them with vice grips.
Either way, replace the screws.

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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Sundevil36 »

Will do.

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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Spacecoast »

So clearly it's a fuel issue, and if the pump has been replaced then most likely carb related. Be sure that the fuel tank petcock is properly open. When I got my bike I pulled the tank off, drained out the old fuel, and made sure that the tank was clean and that the petcock had good output flow. Eliminate the tank and pump and you have nothing left but a carb issue regarding fuel.

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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Sundevil36 »

Yea that's what I was trying to work on by taking the tank off and running a fuel jug to the pump. Back to carb issue. I'll work the screws off this weekend.

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Fred
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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Fred »

Yeee ha we gonna get it running by weekend. Thats quick work.

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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by navigator »

Fred wrote:Yeee ha we gonna get it running by weekend. Thats quick work.
Yup, and he did it all with conventional tooling and sound mechanical procedures.
No Malaysian entrails were used.

stillrolling
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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by stillrolling »

I was gonna recommend u check your idle jets and run a thin piece of wire through them. Did u get it fixed??

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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Sundevil36 »

Not yet, family member caught a case of the big C, so we've been dealing with that.

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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Sundevil36 »

I bought a carb off a running bike that was being parted out, and plugged it all in, made sure the butterfly valves were opening at the same time, put the throttle cables in correctly...started up nice, throttled up really well multiple times. And then died again. When I went to try to start it up again, there's a metal clacking sound right as it starts to fire and just won't get goin again. I tried some started fluid in both intakes and it'll idle off of that for a second but that's all.

Now I'm thinking it's a starvation issue but being caused by the rear carb not giving enough fuel to the front? Or the pump is trash and won't get enough fuel up the line...

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Fred
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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Fred »

:clap: :clap: I think thats what you were told 4 pages back.

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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Forge »

Just to verify, you are making sure that BOTH petcocks are open?
Arthritis sucks!

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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Sundevil36 »

Haha yes I am.

To add to the fun, had someone come and look at it today to buy it for a grand. I'm not going to have the time to work on it much longer due to work and I need to get it out of my garage. He shows up from a 2 hour drive and wants to do a compression check. I was fine with it so I let him and the front shows up at 115! Rear is 152 or around there. That one left me scratching my head because a few pages back in this thread I had done a test and double checked my work and it was 146 or so in the front. I haven't changed anything else.

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Fred
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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Fred »

If its not been running properly then the rings will be dry on the offending cylinder. Do a wet test.

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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Herb »

also if the throttle isn't opening it will read low. Just a little bit out of sync can cause a low reading on the compression test.
I can't seem to win the lottery. I think I have used up all of my good luck riding motorcycles.

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Fred
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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Fred »

Herb wrote:also if the throttle isn't opening it will read low. Just a little bit out of sync can cause a low reading on the compression test.
Thats why a comp test is done with throttle held open on multiple carb engines.

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Re: Bill idle for about 5 seconds then wants to die

Post by Sundevil36 »

I feel so embarrassed to admit this lol. When I put the carb back on after the most recent removal for an adjustment...I forgot to reconnect the throttle cables to the front carb. throttle was never open during the test. seriously can't believe myself on that one, such a bonehead move :bang: I'll test it again in the morning for compression, but I'm pretty sure that would be the culprit there.

so, if its still being starved and the front carb is clean, next step is following the fuel back to the tank yeah? the manual has a diagram for fuel flow showing fuel passing through the main input coming from the fuel pump, leading to a split. one channel from the split goes to the lower carb bowl, and the other channel goes up to the front carb. assuming the fuel pump works as it should, if the lower carb float valve is not closing for whatever reason, might that cause more than the normal volume of fuel to be dumped into the carb and cylinder maybe? I've eliminated both petcocks a couple of times and just run a line into a gas can, so really I'm following the fuel back to the pump lol.

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