Safety Relay Removal / Reduction (minimalism)

[Aequitas4]

I purchased my '97 Intruder 1400 over a year ago as a non-working bike with multiple air/fuel and wiring issues. With the help of a lot of the guys on this board I have been able to get it up and running. I appreciate all the help. As I continue to ride I'm constantly fighting small issues with wiring (probably due to the tweaker rats nest of wires the PO's considered a wiring harness). This has included everything from fuel pump relay, side stand relay, clutch switch etc.



I've seen a lot of the guys on here post that they have removed a lot of the extra/safety switches and I'm considering trying to mimic that while also removing the decomp solenoid and just activate it manually. Below I have included the original wiring diagram I have been working from, a copy of everything but the lighting system (just to simplify the view) and then the final copy of my proposed project solution that would eliminate all unnecessary relays switches solenoids etc. I am leaving all lighting intact and have only removed from the diagrams for clarity.

Original


Lighting removed for clarity


Proposed solution (the purple ovals are where I plan to tie wires in)


Just looking for peoples thoughts opinions or criticisms. Does this look like what some of the guys on this board have done? Does it look like it would work? I know I will have to manually turn the bike off if I crash but hopefully this will remove a lot of the unnecessary relays and wires I have bundled up above the battery and get me closer to having a "bike I can get running on the Cambodian border at night"

[Herb]

I have jumped, not removed, the fuel pump relay, side stand switch, and clutch switch. Looking at your diagram I see no reason that it wouldn't work.

[Aequitas4]

The only other question I have is regarding the fuel pump relay.

According to the diagram it looks like, while the bike is running, the fuel pump is only getting activated by the black/yellow wire when one cylinder is firing. If this is true, would it be better to wire the fuel pump directly to that black/yellow wire rather than wiring it directly to the fuse box as I have in my diagram.

I know this would not run the fuel pump before the bike was running but I currently have a priming button installed next to the petcock that should cover that scenario.

[hillsy]

Wire the fuel pump directly from the O/W wire from the engine stop switch. That way the fuel pump comes on when you turn on that switch.

[Herb]

The only other question I have is regarding the fuel pump relay.

According to the diagram it looks like, while the bike is running, the fuel pump is only getting activated by the black/yellow wire when one cylinder is firing. If this is true, would it be better to wire the fuel pump directly to that black/yellow wire rather than wiring it directly to the fuse box as I have in my diagram.

I know this would not run the fuel pump before the bike was running but I currently have a priming button installed next to the petcock that should cover that scenario.

I jumped the orange white to the brown black wire at the relay plug. The pump comes on as soon as I turn the ignition switch on will not run with the ignition switch off. It has in internal pressure switch that shuts it off at pressure. The yellow red wire brings power from the clutch switch, just another wire you don't need for the way you are wanting to set it up. Plus, the wires are already there at the plug so you don't need to ad any wire.

I jumped the plug and didn't cut it out because I thought that someday someone might want to put it back to stock. I sure as hell don't.

When I learned to ride there was none of this safety switch crap so we had to learn to THINK about what was going on. I have never needed it. Although, I have to admit that I liked having the kill switch on the kick stand. much easier to use than the hand grip switch because I have a throttle lock on the bike that blocks the kill switch.

[Aequitas4]

So the day before I was set to start rewiring to eliminate everything but the decomp unit I had a slight set back. I had been fighting through a failing or poorly connected fuel pump relay for some time but on my ride to work it stopped pumping fuel while running and I had been keeping the bike running by occasionally pushing my manual fuel pump button. After a few miles my manual presses didn't keep up and the bike died.

I had a jumper wire in my pocket with my spare fuses and decided to jumper the brown wire and o/w wires on the back of the fuel pump relay connector. The first time I inserted the "U" shaped wire it didn't make a good connection so I pulled it out and tried again. I must have not double checked the wires the second time because the bike only ran on the rear cylinder the rest of the way to work. I thought it was an air fuel issue but upon returning home I realized I had jumpered the o/w wire to the b/y wire that goes to the coil and igniter ground.

I believe I have damaged my igniter at this point as my resistance readings across all the pins are all over the place and do not match the chart in the service manual. I am not getting spark to the front cylinder.

I verified I had voltage at the spark plug and tried new plug, wire and coil but still had no spark. It looks to me like the spark is initiated when the igniter receives a signal from the pickup coil and breaks the connection at the ground b/y wire. When I manually remove the b/y wire from the coil i get a momentary spark. I checked the voltage from the pickup coils to the igniter and both coils seem to be operating properly, or at least similarly (slight drop in voltage when the engine is turning over) Seems like the igniter is no longer breaking the ground connection at the b/y preventing the igniter coil field from collapsing and generating voltage to jump the air gap. Leaning towards new ignitor.

Am I on the right track?

[Herb]

I think so.

You might be able to test for the signal from the ignitor using an analog meter. Disconnect the signal wire from the coil and test it for a ground. Then crank/start the bike and see if it comes and goes.

BTW, I had an issue with my 87 1400 where a plug failed while I was riding. The front cylinder quit firing. When I got to work I pulled the plug and checked for spark, looked good. At lunch time I started t-shooting and couldn't find anything wrong so, as a last ditch effort, I swapped the plugs. The problem swapped from front to to rear.

After work I went to the nearest parts shop and bought a new set of plugs. Ran fine for a long time after that.

[hillsy]

The charging thing is a bit of a catch 22 in that you can't check it 100% unless the bike is running. There are bench tests for the RR and stator though so at least you can do those without the bike running - and either rule them out or replace. Overcharging (if that is what is happening) would point to the RR as the culprit more than anything else.

It does sound like your igniter is fried if the readings are all out of whack as you say. They are not a serviceable item (well, not by mortals) so if it doesn't measure up, it's pretty much junk.

[Aequitas4]

The charging thing is a bit of a catch 22 in that you can't check it 100% unless the bike is running. There are bench tests for the RR and stator though so at least you can do those without the bike running - and either rule them out or replace. Overcharging (if that is what is happening) would point to the RR as the culprit more than anything else.

It does sound like your igniter is fried if the readings are all out of whack as you say. They are not a serviceable item (well, not by mortals) so if it doesn't measure up, it's pretty much junk.

Thanks guys. Might be dumb, but whats the "RR"?

[Designer]

Thanks guys. Might be dumb, but what's the "RR"?

Nope,...you aren't not dumb,..... we see that from all you post.

What information you seek is,....Regulator/Rectifier.

It is the Black Rectangular Metal Item that has "cooling" Fins on it that I believe is bolted to the Battery Box.

I have been inside the Ignitor and it is quite a compact unit. One that would probably take alot of time to Figure out/Test so as to repair it.

If replacement is your choice, make sure the Wiring/Plugs match your Harness. And you can probably save Beaucoup Bux ($$$) by going with a used one.

[hillsy]

This is the main reason why you won't have much luck digging into an ignitor - the majority of them are set in resin....

[Aequitas4]

If I get the new one working I'm gonna have to see if I can boil it to soften that epoxy potting.

[hillsy]

If I get the new one working I'm gonna have to see if I can boil it to soften that epoxy potting.

Not sure if boiling will get it soft enough - here's what a guy did with a Triumph T100 ignitor: https://www.triumphrat.net/threads/insi ... ld.457034/

Also it's one thing to get the resin off - it's another thing altogether to diagnose which component(s) are faulty / need replacing.

[Designer]

If I get the new one working I'm gonna have to see if I can boil it to soften that epoxy potting.

hillsy confirms my Advice from my Experience with fixing the Ignitor Unit;

I have been inside the Ignitor and it is quite a compact unit. One that would probably take alot of time to Figure out/Test so as to repair it.

Have you done any searches for a Replacement? Ebay is a good Starting point source.
A lot of Motorcycle "Bone Yards" sell their wares there.

[hillsy]

hillsy confirms my Advice from my Experience with fixing the Ignitor Unit;

Actually you are confirming my advice as I already said the ignitors are not a serviceable item. At least I think that's what you are saying in that you haven't fixed one either?

[Designer]

I'm not going to get into a semantics game with you.

What I said is what you confirmed.

hillsy confirms my Advice from my Experience with fixing the Ignitor Unit;

I have been inside the Ignitor and it is quite a compact unit. One that would probably take alot of time to Figure out/Test so as to repair it.

Also it's one thing to get the resin off - it's another thing altogether to diagnose which component(s) are faulty / need replacing.

Thank you.

[Aequitas4]

Ok, I started digging into the igniter wiring plugs and have run into some confusion between what I'm seeing in the service manual and what the p/o has left for me on the bike. On the left is the service manual/wiring diagram info and the right side is what I currently see on the bike. The numbers are just there to identify pins for myself.

First, I'm not sure why my connector "B" is an 8-pin connector while the manual shows a 4-pin (maybe different years, mines '97)

Second it looks from the scratches and wear on the clip that the "bk" wire on connector "B"" has at some point been moved from pin-6 or pin-7 to pin-2.

Can anyone provide any additional clarification for what this should look like?

[hillsy]

I'm having trouble matching up your wire colour diagram (on the right) with the image of the connector (just below that).

Is your wire colour diagram looking at the connectors or looking at the ignitor? Either way it all looks wrong.

[Herb]

The ignitor that you have on the left is for an early bike. Those ignitors are no longer available. Your bike is a 95 so it has a totally different unit. The ignitor for the early bikes was testable but the newer one isn't testable by the owner.

The wiring diagram has the wire colors but not the pins. I used to have a separate diagram of the wiring colors on the connectors but can't find it

[hillsy]

I found some pics from an 01 loom on eBay - I think your wiring is correct with the black wire being in slot #2



https://www.ebay.com/itm/165396273704?e ... SweLViOd7D