Cutting S83 Handlebar clamp

[Pvt_Nemesis]

Done the reverse bleed with syringe... I'm guessing it's time for the banjo laydown?

viewtopic.php?t=74

[Designer]

Done the reverse bleed with syringe... I'm guessing it's time for the banjo laydown?
viewtopic.php?t=74

Since I cannot see the installation you did, I assume the trapped air is in the Banjo Fitting at the Caliper. If so, it's probably much easier and safer to just temporarily move the caliper to a position than laying the bike over like that.
Relocating the caliper, if possible still on the Rotor, will let the trapped air rise up the Hydraulic Hose,...and doing so for about 15 minutes should do it. Then, making sure the Brake Pads do not move inwards, use the "Lever Technique" outlined here:

http://intruders-alert.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4

I do a similar temporary relocation for my 6-piston Rear Caliper, but luckily,...not the Front one.

[Pvt_Nemesis]

http://intruders-alert.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4

This is exactly what i did, then did a reverse bleed but I've still got spongy. I've had and maintained bikes over 30 years but never encountered the bleed troubles i have on an intruder! Banjo on the front caliper is straight and actually perfectly vertical so I doubt it's the cause. Upper banjo is straight and vertical too. Hose is 39" for a future lift of the bars and brand new. I had this with twin pot as well as 6pot but once sorted its rock hard. I just can't figure what it takes to get it sorted.

(and it's delaying the bars project!)

[hillsy]

http://intruders-alert.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4

This is exactly what i did, then did a reverse bleed but I've still got spongy. I've had and maintained bikes over 30 years but never encountered the bleed troubles i have on an intruder! Banjo on the front caliper is straight and actually perfectly vertical so I doubt it's the cause. Upper banjo is straight and vertical too. Hose is 39" for a future lift of the bars and brand new. I had this with twin pot as well as 6pot but once sorted its rock hard. I just can't figure what it takes to get it sorted.

(and it's delaying the bars project!)

Reverse bleeding with a syringe and a 6" piece of clear hose is what works for me 99% of the time. Wrap some teflon tape around the bleed nipple threads so you can pull the fluid with the syringe as well and not suck in air. You can keep pushing / pulling the fluid as long as you like - just make sure you don't push any air into the nipple.

If all else fails turn the bars to the left and tie the brake lever back to the bars and leave overnight. This will pressurize the system and make any bubbles rise to the MC. Then when you let the lever go the built up pressure in the caliper / line will push the bubbles into the reservoir.

[Designer]

http://intruders-alert.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4

This is exactly what i did, then did a Reverse Bleed but I've still got spongy. I've had and maintained bikes over 30 years but never encountered the bleed troubles i have on an intruder! Banjo on the front caliper is straight and actually perfectly vertical so I doubt it's the cause. Upper banjo is straight and vertical too. Hose is 39" for a future lift of the bars and brand new. I had this with twin pot as well as 6pot but once sorted its rock hard. I just can't figure what it takes to get it sorted. (and it's delaying the bars project!)

What I have found is the Reverse Bleeding will drive up any air and into the Banjo Fitting,...not the Master Cylinder. As much as I've heard it said,....not always do all the efforts to seal and prevent air infiltration work 100%. Just a small amount of filling hose movement can "break" the seal at the caliper,..and in goes a tiny amount of air. Same with the Teflon wrapped Bleed Nipple..(it has to be loose so the fluid at low pressure can enter feely.)

To help you out,...could you please post a few Pictures of your Arrangement?

And,...did you get to use the Air Removal Technique in that Link I posted? It shows how to get all the Micro-Bubbles out of the system,..the ones usually trapped between the Master Cylinder Banjo Bolt and the uppermost part of the Banjo Fitting.

[Pvt_Nemesis]

How's that? The other end is stock though new hose. I did every step listed though simpler since I'm guessing buckhorns are harder than drag bars to level the MC

[hillsy]

Is your brake line a one piece unit or does it go to a splitter/ join under the headlight? Another area that can trap air if it's not one piece.

You can buy a braided line for a pit bike for cheap - this seller has different lengths:



https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/32468717668 ... ition=1000

I bought a couple for my XJ and have run them for about 2 years now - big improvement and they haven't busted yet (firmly touching wood)

[Pvt_Nemesis]

One piece hose on mine. And hoses like this aren't an option since they won't pass annual vehicle warrant of fitness inspection. An "unapproved" brand would require the bike to undergo a low volume vehicle certification inspection by an engineer!

[Herb]

Thank God (and my good sense) I don't live in a state that requires the stupid annual inspection. However, my 99 has a one piece hose and is totally stock.

BTW, I have never liked the wiring ran through the bars, it puts too many limits on what can be done with the controls and position of the bars.

[Designer]

Thank you for posting this. REALLY good picture, btw. And a slick installation, too.


Seeing it confirms what I thought you were saying about the Banjo Fitting being Vertical.....thus, I see no way that air can be trapped at the Caliper.

Since you already said you do have a one-piece hose all the way up to the master cylinder,

Hose is 39" for a future lift of the bars and brand new.

I cannot fathom how there could be a splitter under the headlight to cause this issue.

How's that? The other end is stock though new hose. I did every step listed though simpler since I'm guessing buckhorns are harder than drag bars to level the MC

Correct assessment there, that Method of getting out the Microbubbles was for the Buckhorn bars so popular back when it was written.

Might I ask, when you performed this Technique did you get to position the Master Cylinder so it had a slight downward tilt ....lower at the Banjo Fitting?

[navigator]

Is that the bleeder at the top?
Black cover on it? behind the hose?

[Pvt_Nemesis]

Is that the bleeder at the top?
Black cover on it? behind the hose?

It is indeed. I thought positioning might make air trap in the other side so removed caliper, removed pads, inserted an old pad, clamped it down, then squeezed lever slowly to activate other 3 pistons.

Brake lever is much better after an overnight tied-back-to-the-grip session, All this squeezing has super-strengthed my right hand so will have to take her for a ride to confirm its fixed.

[hillsy]

Brake lever is much better after an overnight tied-back-to-the-grip session

It's quite amazing how that works, eh? You think you've got it done but just by doing that it makes it better again.

Another thing to keep in mind is the new caliper is 6 piston compared to your old 2 piston one. I know the pistons are smaller but the total surface area will probably be a bit bigger which in turn means you need more lever travel in operation. In other words - the lever may not go back to the same level of firmness as you had before. A braided line will help with this.

[Designer]

Is that the bleeder at the top? Black cover on it? behind the hose?

It is indeed. I thought positioning might make air trap in the other side so removed caliper, removed pads, inserted an old pad, clamped it down, then squeezed lever slowly to activate other 3 pistons.
Brake lever is much better after an overnight tied-back-to-the-grip session, All this squeezing has super-strengthed my right hand so will have to take her for a ride to confirm its fixed.

Sounds like We are getting closer!

Have you considered doing a Top-down (or Standard ) Bleed of this system? Since the location of the Brake Caliper Bleeder is at the very top of the Caliper, this might prove effective. I use a Mity-Vac Pump and have it draw the fluid out the Bleeder instead of using the Lever to move the fluid...... making sure the Reservoir is filled enough so no air gets in.

Works every time,...never failed me.

[hillsy]

Syringe will do the same job as a Mity-Vac - with the added bonus of being able to push the fluid as well as draw it

I use a 50ml syringe with about 6" of clear hose (6mm, I think). 50ml is a good size as that's a little smaller than most reservoirs so you won't accidently overflow it if you get carried away pushing the fluid.

[Designer]

hilly,...that is just not true.

Pulling the fluid through is not the same as pushing it. And the Mity Vac does a Top Level job at that .

And a syringe cannot keep at steady, constant force. When used as a Pressure Force, it must needs be taken off the hose and 'refilled' each time it is fully compressed. Which,..then fills the filling hose with,...air.

There's more,...but it's best we not get into one of your tech arguments here,...let's focus on getting Pvt-nemesis Back On The Road Again.

[hillsy]

A syringe will do the same job as a Mity Vac in that you can use it to draw fluid out of the caliper. But you can also use it to reverse bleed.

And there is a simple technique to eliminate any air getting back in if you have to remove and refill the syringe (but you shouldn't have to remove it)

The guy already has a syringe - he just needs to use it properly - he doesn't need to buy a Mity Vac.

[Designer]

Please hillsy.

As I suggested,.....let's not drag down this Thread with one of your Tech Arguments.

We are here to Help Our Board Member solve his Problems. So let's focus on that,....K?

[hillsy]

Yes - I am here to help the guy.

He's already done my suggestion of tying the lever back to the bars and that has helped.

Suggesting he use a Mity Vac when he already has a syringe to use is not helping him.

[Designer]

Sorry hillsy,..but yes,...as Mity Vac would help him. Being it can provide a constant & steady uninterrupted source of force,..BOTH Pressure and Vaccum.....it is able to do a more effective job than a syringe. I have had this true of over 4 decades as have many of my mechanic friends.

Back to the point I was making. Since the Reverse Bleed didn't do the whole job, I suggested he do a Standard Bleeding, pulling the fluid out at the Caliper Bleeder Nipple.

Now,....please,...stop with the Tech Bickering you started. It serves no constructive purpose.