Clutch Slipping?

[Polkahero]

Hi there, I just picked up a 1994 VS1400 Intruder yesterday that has a clutch issue. I've worked on Yamahas for the past 20 years and this is my first Suzuki so I'm dealing with a learning curve. Never had a bike with a hydraulic clutch. When I put the bike into first gear it's not getting any power to the rear wheel. Sometimes it just "coasts" with the clutch lever out. Are there any adjustments with these like a bike with a clutch cable where you can adjust it at the crankcase? Do you think the cylinder just needs bleeding or is this looking like a complete clutch job with new plates? Thanks for any help!

[WintrSol]

Some questions to help.
Do you feel much force when squeezing the lever?
Is the force there when the lever first moves, or is there some free movement? If so, how much?
Do you know someone with a working hydraulic clutch so you can compare how the lever feels?
Have you tried to bleed the old fluid out, replacing it with new? Don't let air enter the system when trying this.

[Polkahero]

Some questions to help.
Do you feel much force when squeezing the lever?
Is the force there when the lever first moves, or is there some free movement? If so, how much?
Do you know someone with a working hydraulic clutch so you can compare how the lever feels?
Have you tried to bleed the old fluid out, replacing it with new? Don't let air enter the system when trying this.

Like I said this is my first bike with a hydraulic clutch so I'm assuming the lever pull should be easier than a standard cable model. There does seem to be sufficient force when pulling the lever back. Doesn't feel like there's any initial free play. I don't know anyone with a hydraulic clutch but I did check out another 1400 last week that had a bad clutch and that had absolutely no force at the clutch lever. I'm just reading up in the service manual how to bleed the system, looks like these take the standard DOT 3 brake fluid.

[WintrSol]

Like I said this is my first bike with a hydraulic clutch so I'm assuming the lever pull should be easier than a standard cable model. There does seem to be sufficient force when pulling the lever back. Doesn't feel like there's any initial free play. I don't know anyone with a hydraulic clutch but I did check out another 1400 last week that had a bad clutch and that had absolutely no force at the clutch lever. I'm just reading up in the service manual how to bleed the system, looks like these take the standard DOT 3 brake fluid.

There should be some motion of the lever - about 1/2" at the end, give or take - before you feel the pressure build; basically the same as cable. Hydraulic clutch levers aren't necessarily easier to pull than cable clutches; some are, but some aren't.
The failure to release could just be junk in the lines. If, for example, the small pressure relief hole between the reservoir and master cylinder is blocked, there could be pressure built up in the lines that prevents the clutch from engaging all the way. When you prepare to bleed the system, use something to draw the old fluid out of the reservoir until you see the hole; there may be a little metal shield over it to prevent it spraying when the lever is pulled, but it just snaps off and pops back on. Make sure that hole is clear before refilling the reservoir and bleeding the lines and slave cylinder. If you have pull-back bars (the kind in the forum header picture), it helps to loosen the screws that hold the reservoir and slide it up so it is about level, or slightly tilted toward the fitting that holds the line. Less likely to get air in the system when emptying the reservoir with it leveled. Leveling the reservoir with the flat bars is a lot easier, and usually just requires a board under the kick stand and turning the bars to the right.

[Polkahero]

Like I said this is my first bike with a hydraulic clutch so I'm assuming the lever pull should be easier than a standard cable model. There does seem to be sufficient force when pulling the lever back. Doesn't feel like there's any initial free play. I don't know anyone with a hydraulic clutch but I did check out another 1400 last week that had a bad clutch and that had absolutely no force at the clutch lever. I'm just reading up in the service manual how to bleed the system, looks like these take the standard DOT 3 brake fluid.

There should be some motion of the lever - about 1/2" at the end, give or take - before you feel the pressure build; basically the same as cable. Hydraulic clutch levers aren't necessarily easier to pull than cable clutches; some are, but some aren't.
The failure to release could just be junk in the lines. If, for example, the small pressure relief hole between the reservoir and master cylinder is blocked, there could be pressure built up in the lines that prevents the clutch from engaging all the way. When you prepare to bleed the system, use something to draw the old fluid out of the reservoir until you see the hole; there may be a little metal shield over it to prevent it spraying when the lever is pulled, but it just snaps off and pops back on. Make sure that hole is clear before refilling the reservoir and bleeding the lines and slave cylinder. If you have pull-back bars (the kind in the forum header picture), it helps to loosen the screws that hold the reservoir and slide it up so it is about level, or slightly tilted toward the fitting that holds the line. Less likely to get air in the system when emptying the reservoir with it leveled. Leveling the reservoir with the flat bars is a lot easier, and usually just requires a board under the kick stand and turning the bars to the right.

I tried bleeding the system this afternoon and the pressure in the lever is actually a lot worse now. Yes, that small hole in the master cylinder is clear because if I left the cap off when pressing in the lever it would shoot brake fluid all over. I think the pressure was actually okay in the line, pretty sure this is a bigger clutch issue.

[Travlin]

Sounds like you got it right now. My clutch slipped about 30 years ago and I replaced it. Better springs are the answer and no friction modified oil.

If it has been slipping for a long time it may need to be replaced. It's one of those 1400 things. Like Wintersol said the hole blocked, which is not, will cause a slip but doesn't seem to be your case.

[Polkahero]

Sounds like you got it right now. My clutch slipped about 30 years ago and I replaced it. Better springs are the answer and no friction modified oil.

If it has been slipping for a long time it may need to be replaced. It's one of those 1400 things. Like Wintersol said the hole blocked, which is not, will cause a slip but doesn't seem to be your case.

So the right engine cover has to be removed, correct? Looks like that involves removing the front exhaust as well as the entire peg assembly which the kickstand is part of just to get at the cover bolts. I don't have a lift so how I am supposed to work on this? I guess I'm not impressed with the engineering of these bikes already, lol.

[Travlin]

They actually are solid scoots, they just have some idiosyncrasies. I had the same idea when I did my springs but didn't take all of that off. It can be finessed off. I think I did pull the pipe but that isn't a big deal. Careful with the studs, lots broken across the years posted on the boards. Think I dropped the master cylinder but left the cross member.

ETA OK I just looked at the bike. I don't think the pipe needs pulled, just the master cylinder.

[subin]

This may help.

http://www.intruders-alert.com/viewtopic.php?t=73