Decompression adjustment help.

[D_block]

My bikes been having an intermittent hard start recently and I believe its a decompression problem. I've ruled out starter voltage, the starter itself, and the battery but it still has to try REALY hard to turn over that first time and then its good (most of the time). So I checked the decompression cables and, sure enough, had some significant slack on the rear cylinder. I tightened it up (about one and a half turns) and it looks like they are both lifting at the same time now but I’m still getting a hard start and now that I'm watching the decomp actuating I have some questions.

1. Is it actuating for long enough? When I hold down the starter switch it only actuates for about a second before dropping down. Should this be enough time to let the starter do its thing?

2. Sometimes when I start the lever cant reach its limit, but then next time it can. This also happens when I manually twist it. I'm having a hard time visualizing why this would be the case. Is this normal or could something be blocking it?


Thanks for any help.

[Herb]

When you push the start button the decomp solenoid engages. 0.2 sec later the starter motor starts, 0.5 sec later the decomp is supposed to disengage. So the decomp only lasts a total of 0.7 sec.

since you say that it doesn't always move as much I would check the cables for binding/fraying while lubing them. I would also check the decomp solenoid for binding or dirt/grime inhibiting its movement. I have heard of dirt/grime building up on it and restricting its movement. It is open to the elements and could be binding up.

[D_block]

Thanks for the reply Herb, I checked the cables but didn't think to clean the solenoid. Ill do that today.

However the restricted movement happens even when I manually turn the switch/lever. It feels like something is stopping it internally. Also, if it is limited, it will stay that way until the bike actually starts. In other words, when it only opens half way I can give it several short attempts and it will still only open half way. Only when i successfully start the bike, turn it off and try again, then It may open up all the way. This makes me think its related to the rotation of something in the motor but I don't know enough about how its connected inside to know if this makes sense or not.

[D_block]

When you push the start button the decomp solenoid engages. 0.2 sec later the starter motor starts, 0.5 sec later the decomp is supposed to disengage. So the decomp only lasts a total of 0.7 sec.

since you say that it doesn't always move as much I would check the cables for binding/fraying while lubing them. I would also check the decomp solenoid for binding or dirt/grime inhibiting its movement. I have heard of dirt/grime building up on it and restricting its movement. It is open to the elements and could be binding up.

Thanks for the reply Herb, I checked the cables but didn't think to clean the solenoid. Ill do that today.

However the restricted movement happens even when I manually turn the switch/lever. It feels like something is stopping it internally. Also, if it is limited, it will stay that way until the bike actually starts. In other words, when it only opens half way I can give it several short attempts and it will still only open half way. Only when i successfully start the bike, turn it off and try again, then It may open up all the way. This makes me think its related to the rotation of something in the motor but I don't know enough about how its connected inside to know if this makes sense or not.

[WintrSol]

I ran into this when trying to set up a C90T engine, so assume the 1400 is similar. The decomp system inserts hardware into the path of the cam and exhaust valve, and, unless the engine is in the perfect position, those parts will clash, like trying to shift the transmission with the engine stopped. If you have someone turn the engine while trying to apply the solenoid force, you should find the spot where they fit together.

[Herb]

When you push the start button the decomp solenoid engages. 0.2 sec later the starter motor starts, 0.5 sec later the decomp is supposed to disengage. So the decomp only lasts a total of 0.7 sec.

since you say that it doesn't always move as much I would check the cables for binding/fraying while lubing them. I would also check the decomp solenoid for binding or dirt/grime inhibiting its movement. I have heard of dirt/grime building up on it and restricting its movement. It is open to the elements and could be binding up.

Thanks for the reply Herb, I checked the cables but didn't think to clean the solenoid. Ill do that today.

However the restricted movement happens even when I manually turn the switch/lever. It feels like something is stopping it internally. Also, if it is limited, it will stay that way until the bike actually starts. In other words, when it only opens half way I can give it several short attempts and it will still only open half way. Only when i successfully start the bike, turn it off and try again, then It may open up all the way. This makes me think its related to the rotation of something in the motor but I don't know enough about how its connected inside to know if this makes sense or not.

The reason you feel that restriction is that you are trying to push the exhaust valves open with very little leverage. The decomp holds the exhaust valves partway open to prevent the compression from building in the cylinder until the engine starts spinning. At the top of this forum there is a link to the OEM manual for the 1400. You might be able to find something in it that would help.

I have, form time to time had the same issue you are talking about on both of my 1400s, push the button and it kind of locks up then do it again and it starts fine. I think that what happens is a cylinder is starting up the compression stroke and the decomp kicks out too soon causing it to stop when you hit it the second time the cylinder is already at the top of the stroke and the compression release does it's job.

[Sirdax]

Hey guys, new to the forum here. I just purchased an 06 vs1400 S83 boulevard. Not running. So ,I put new battery, checked spark(good), good starter. And I still can't get it to turn over. Like it's really struggling to even get one spin out of it. So, I called previous owner for insight. He told me that he disconnected the decompression solenoid cables. From rear cylinder and to the pivot. Also said he didn't remember where they were set to begin with and gave up trying to adjust them to the correct spot. So, I pulled the solenoid (decmp) and cleaned it . Move great. But, I'm am having a really hard time figuring out how to adjust them from a good starting point. No matter what cable I adjust . Things are the same. One sin then clicking. It's driving me nuts. Any idea on a good starting point. Thanks

[Sirdax]

Okay,while adjusting the cables on the front cylinder, I found a spot where, I get almost three turns out of the cylinders. The, labored clicking for a few seconds, then another almost three turns. If I adjust either cable 1/4 turns, I'm back to one spin. What a pain.

[sgtcall]

Just in case. https://www.dropbox.com/s/slouooavobjdx ... t.pdf?dl=0




More info in the drop box under 'Other Information'.
See Here.
INTRUDER MANUALS AND INFORMATION
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=14168

[hillsy v2]

The other thing in the equation is the solenoid. A system with a good starter motor, battery and solenoid should still turn the engine over.

[Sirdax]

Awesome!!! Thanks guys. For the replies. Now that I have something to go by, I'll tackle it this weekend and keep ya posted. Thank you mucho !!!

[Sirdax]

Okay, after setting the decompression cables as to the diagram that (sgtcall) sent. Nothing , has changed. It still only turns once or twice. So, I played with the adjustments at 1/4 turns from lowest clearances to highest clearances. It seems that , when I make an afjustment,tighten the secure nut, the pivot on the front cylinder I can close the clearance , just a little more by hand. Like it's not retuning to the original spot each time. Also, pulled the plugs and tried to start and it seems to me ( by the sound) the starter May be a little labored. The shaft doesn't turn by hand very easy. In fact, it's a job for the thumb and fore finger. Is that normal? Anyway, any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for the diagram, sgtcall!! This is driving me nuts but, just wanna be able to my own roadside unfortunates. Peace!!

[hillsy v2]

Starter motors will have a bit of resistance ti turn by hand.

Maybe try a new solenoid? It's pretty cheap thing to replace.

[Sirdax]

Well, I'm still stumped. I would replace the solenoid but , it's showing the range of ohms as I open and close it. Besides, I havet found one cheaper than $275.not to mention , when I pulled it to clean it, omg, I've never had something so hard to get to and remove. Lmao. Also, getting it back in was worse. . it's opening and fully closing. Just feels like it's in the pivot area on the front cylinder. I cleaned it oiled it , put the gaps to specs. Nothing but, one turn. Also, I pulled the plugs and checked compressionon on cylinders. Front has 54 and, rear has 74 lbs. Is that normal if the decompression valve solenoid is effected?

[hillsy v2]

Those compression readings are stupid low.

Either your gauge is bad / you didn't get a proper reading / the decomp is keeping the valves open or the engine is shot.

[Herb]

The reason that the compression release is there is to get the engine spinning to take some of the load off of the starter and battery.

The engine only turns once or twice with the compression released and then it kicks off so the engine can run. I don't remember the actual time but it is in the manual under the electrical systems section. If it doesn't continue to crank over then you have an issue with the start circuit.

It could be a weak battery, a problem with the battery cables or the starter itself.

With a good battery, good cables and a good starter the bike will start without the compression release, it just isn't good for the starter.

So, what happens after the compression release kicks out? Does it crank slow? If so that could be the reason for the low compression.

BTW, compression test should be done with wide open throttle.

[Designer]

What Herb says.

This sounds a lot like an Electrical/Power issue at this time. Please follow what he says about the Battery Connections/Condition ....and do check the Ground Wire Terminal ( at the Engine Block) for cleanliness and good contact. It is often overlooked.

And may I suggest a test, take out the Spark Plugs and see how well the Starting and Decompression System operates.

[Herb]

Here is a test on your starting system.

take a set of jumper cables, hook them up to a car battery (car not running), attach the ground wire to any solid bolt, touch the positive cable end to the connection at the starter. Key off touching nothing else on the bike. If it spins faster than with the bike start system then you have an issue with the start system.

[Sirdax]

I did that. Okay, well,I'm pretty acclimatted to the motorcycle community. I don't wanna throw $$ at trying to eliminate things. You were awesome at the insight. . That was awesome!! I really appreciate it. But, if it's not a starter problem or, decompression valve solenoid problem, wth. Lol. It's kicking my butt. Is there a possibility that, something is wrong in the front cylinder , not letting the valve solenoid to be working correctly? Or, am I just being too . Well, ya know. Once ya get frustrated. Ya kinda go crazy on things. Lol

[hillsy v2]

If you haven't swapped it out already, you can get a new starter relay off eBay for like $10:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... d&_sacat=0