Drag pipes and poor performance

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vanhalenarmy
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Re: Drag pipes and poor performance

Post by vanhalenarmy »

Hey Keith,

I've got the same cobra drag set and I was about to order the baffles from thunder monster... but which size? I measured my pipes and I think the #2002 model will be the ones that work. Just wanted to check with someone who has done this already with the exact same pipes.
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hillsy
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Re: Drag pipes and poor performance

Post by hillsy »

I mucked around with all sorts of different size / location lollipops on the Cobra drag pipes on my LC to pretty much no avail. I ended up buying a V&H Pro Pipe 2-1 and enjoyed the ride :cheers:

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Re: Drag pipes and poor performance

Post by Forge »

Call them directly and speak with them. You need the baffles that are 1&7/8" OD. Your pipes ar 2" OD and 1&7/8" ID. I went through all of this and tried different things to get better sound. For me, the Cobra baffles were too raspy, raw sounding, and loud. I went with the Big City Thunder QQ baffles and installed them 8" in as I was directed on the phone. The instructions say 6", but I was told 8" would work better. They will instruct you with your setup. I also have K&N drop ins and a Dynojet stage 1 kit on the 3rd needle position (factory jets) and a Dynatek 3000.

I liked the sound better and the bike felt more responsive with great acceleration and highway "snap." They were still too loud for me even though they are the quieter version of their baffles. At highway speeds they were fine, but navigating through the neighborhoods I experienced a very sharp and painful exhaust pulsing in my ears even with my Arai helmet. I have already lost enough of my hearing, so I tried factory headers and the Vance & Hines Classic 2 slip ons. I love the sound of the slip ons much better. I have lost some top end and acceleration by switching to the slip ons, but my ears are happier.

I never tried the regular BCT baffles, but in my experiece with their QQ baffles in the Cobra drags and my set up, they really woke them up. Performance wise, I think it was my best set up, but it was just too loud for me doing a lot of city navigating and experiencing the painful exhaust, but that is me. Again, cruising on the highway was not a problem and the exhaust sounded great. If I was in the country and didn't do as much city driving, I would still have that setup. In fact, if I was still young, I would probably still have that setup. Now that I am an older man trying to keep what's left of his hearing, I am ok with giving up a little performance to save my ears. Again, that is me. Good luck and let us know how it goes!
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Fred
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Re: Drag pipes and poor performance

Post by Fred »

A guy walks into a fishing shop. The walls are full of lures of all kinds and colours -hundreds of them. The shop owner watched as he walks up and down looking. Eventually the customer said ' do all these lures catch fish". The shop owner said 'some do but most catch fishermen'

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Re: Drag pipes and poor performance

Post by BRONX INTRUDER »

Fred wrote:A guy walks into a fishing shop. The walls are full of lures of all kinds and colours -hundreds of them. The shop owner watched as he walks up and down looking. Eventually the customer said ' do all these lures catch fish". The shop owner said 'some do but most catch fishermen'
Lol. You should tell more jokes Fred. Lol.

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vanhalenarmy
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Re: Drag pipes and poor performance

Post by vanhalenarmy »

Ya It's the #2002 model, 1 7/8" ID and 2" OD. Ordered em last night. Thanks for the quick reply, and the post about the monster baffles. Hopefully they will give that deeper sound that I'm looking for.
If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.
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Re: Drag pipes and poor performance

Post by old time rider »

With stock air box and filter any will not make more power with drag pipes or more open exhaust on a carb.. Just more racket that some think means more power. More air in and rejet is where the more power comes in. :putput:

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Fred
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Re: Drag pipes and poor performance

Post by Fred »

Ok I got to speak up here. What is the point in opening up the exhaust to breath and then finding you have to fit baffles and or lollipops the get back back pressure.

No engine likes back pressure every gulp of air through the filter produces power so why then restrict it on the other side.

Speed of exhaust gas needs to be at least 250 feet per second to pull the gas through and out. A proper flowing exhaust enhances the breathing of the carbs hence 2 into 1 and 2 into 4 etc. Your down pipe is 1 1/4 inch to achieve this so why slow it down with a 2 inch.

The lolpops help stop reversion which some think is back pressure but it is not back pressure but back shocks. Fish tales were for this and work well. Depending on cams reversion can be a big problem on motorbikes, google it.

The engine breathing is a full package and starts at the air filter and ends at the tail pipe. Fuck with one and you fuck it all up. Then you expect re jetting to fix your problem fucking it up further.


Suzuki carefully designed the bike to give full power with a fuel consumption appropriate to its very competitive market, if HP could be gained from
a simple pipe swap or a sunday afternoon air box mod don't you think they would have done it.

A large dia makes a deeper tone so if you want more noise just ram a poker up your stock silencer. Make enough holes till your happy with it and can stay friends with your neighbour.

If you think your getting more Hp for the noise Dyno it.

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Re: Drag pipes and poor performance

Post by Marauder03 »

I just recently picked up my 1400 vs with jardine straight pipes already on it, I also discovered the po put KnN air filters in it. I’m not sure if he rejet the carbs but it ran really good. Of course I just had to pull the baffles out to see how it would sound, which to me is music to my ears. I have put some miles on since removing the baffles and it appears to me it is a little quicker. I’m just going by the butt dyno so I could be wrong. I’m looking for more of a good sound than trying to make it faster. I’ve owned a V65 Magna and a Vmax so I’ve got an idea what fast is, but this 1400 vs is a torque monster and I’m having a blast riding it and it sounds bad ass.

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Pvt_Nemesis
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Re: Drag pipes and poor performance

Post by Pvt_Nemesis »

I'm with Fred on this one - noise is energy and that is energy lost from the back wheel. If you want a flatulent ear buster buy American. Back pressure on balanced pipes actually improves performance not reduces it
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vanhalenarmy
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Re: Drag pipes and poor performance

Post by vanhalenarmy »

I ended up putting in the DK Products lollipop's in last weekend. I was going for a deeper sound, and that's exactly what they gave me.

There is already plenty of performance.

But feel free to bicker about what other people do to their bikes...
If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.
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Herb
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Re: Drag pipes and poor performance

Post by Herb »

Freddie makes some good points. however, the manufacturer has to balance a whole bunch of things, many of them are government mandates that actually work against the manufacturer making the most HP/torque/fuel economy. The owner, tuner, and aftermarket suppliers don't have the same restrictions. So there are things that can be done to improve any one or more of the things we want from our machinery.

While the bike, new, has a decent balance between the intake and exhaust, it also has to meet emission standards whick means that the balance may not be as good as we would like. A few tweaks can help it run better.

However, keep in mind that freddie is correct in that when you do something to one part, you usually have to do something to another part.

Personally, I think it is up to the owners to decide if there are changes they want to make and no one else has any right to bitch about it. If a person doesn't want to assist with any issues, that person can just keep their mouth shut.
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Fred
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Re: Drag pipes and poor performance

Post by Fred »

If you have straight pipes your bike runs like shit( read S&S web site). If you have a cross over it may be better. Jetting will not fix it because Its not jetting at all,--- you have fitted straight pipes and no amount of jetting will fix it because it is reversion in the exhaust system. This is NOT back pressure this is back shocks that will blow fuel straight out of your carb.



Take off your filters and hook up a source of fuel. Run the engine and take it up to approx 3500 you will feel fuel spitting back out of the carb, this is reversion, I even had fuel coming from the bowl vent as reversion was getting back down the idle and main jet into the bowl and spitting it out of the vent pipe.

I messed about for 2 days trying to fix what S&S say is impossible ( google it) I Finally I got it.

I dont have S&S I made my own, this is what I have. I have 33 inch 1/3/8 down pipes that opens to 2 inch--- do not cut the 33 inch pipe flush with the 2 inch leave it at full length inside the 2 inch.This is the reversion lock. The 2 inch starts at the foot peg and finishes at the cross over by batt box.

This will mean your 1/3/8 pipe finished just passed the foot peg for the rear cylinder and just near the cross over for the front.

I then have a 1.1/4 cross over pipe in the usual position. I then made a baffle of 1.1/4 pipe 1 foot long with saw cuts into it and open out the cuts like a flower just to hold it in the 2 inch pipe. In the end of that I fit a lolipop. This baffle tube had 1/4 holes drilled into it --as many as you can maybe 100.

The 1 foot baffle was lightly wrapped with fibre glass matting and kept in place with thin wire loosley wrapped just to hold it in place.

I then have another set of 2 inch pipes to take the gasses out up the the rear wheel center, They join the down pipes.

The baffles were slipped in the 2 inch pipe so that the loli pop was just after the cross over and NOT at the tail pipe end that every one tells you to , Locate the baffle with a 10mm not and bolt.

I now have no spitting back and it runs good. it is a very deep tone and none of this patter patter flap sound.

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vanhalenarmy
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Re: Drag pipes and poor performance

Post by vanhalenarmy »

Fred, nice write up. I’m glad you found something that works for ya.

I don’t have any of the issues you described. I’ve had my bike put on a dyno, carbs synced, and tuned by a Ducati and Suzuki certified master technician of 19 years experience. I sent him your last post and all he did was laugh and say “this guy seems to know his stuff, like a plumber knows electrical”.

My bike, while on the bench measured 91 HP at the wheel. I get 42-46mpg and I can get her up to 120 with ease. If that’s running like shit than I don’t want anything else for her.
If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.
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Fred
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Re: Drag pipes and poor performance

Post by Fred »

vanhalenarmy wrote:Fred, nice write up. I’m glad you found something that works for ya.

I don’t have any of the issues you described. I’ve had my bike put on a dyno, carbs synced, and tuned by a Ducati and Suzuki certified master technician of 19 years experience. I sent him your last post and all he did was laugh and say “this guy seems to know his stuff, like a plumber knows electrical”.

My bike, while on the bench measured 91 HP at the wheel. I get 42-46mpg and I can get her up to 120 with ease. If that’s running like shit than I don’t want anything else for her.

So what you are saying is that your stock 1400 is 91WHP at the wheel. This equates to approx 105HP at the engine :blink: Thats very good and very nearly 75% from just fitting some pipes and economy unheard of, but you did not say if you had drags pipes, I assume you must have. You did'nt say anything really just how good you think you are. You should give us all some advice, Im sure we would like to know how you got 115 BHP.

Im not saying I dont believe you --oh no but please post your dyno card.

Drag pipes work great on top end, and wide open throttle will over come reversion. Here is a dyno result of drags and baffles by S&S a huge American pipe maker.

Some of us drive in towns and 40mph speed limits,--and some have bought pipes from the display in motorcycle shops distracted by girls in bikinis and ended up with a shit bike. did you read that bit?



This will simplify what I tried to explain but obviously I did'nt get it over correctly.

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vanhalenarmy
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Re: Drag pipes and poor performance

Post by vanhalenarmy »

Man Fred, you sure have a history on this forum (and the original IA forum) of being a good ol'fashioned dick. Congratulations are in order. You deserve it, be proud.

Yes it came out to 91hp. Twice.

From what my guy has told me the biggest No. 1 problem with these bikes is carb synchronization. Mine, brand new when I took it in, was WAY off. These engines can handle large variations without hardly noticing but your overall performance will be affected and MPG will dramatically drop. Before I took mine in it was getting around 36-39mpg if I was lucky. Personally I never ride very hard and always baby my bikes along with almost never cruising faster than 65. When going around a semi I rarely even go above 70 to pass. Been in two major motorcycle accidents as a kid so it's all about safety for me now.

Yes I get anywhere between 42-46mpg with 95% freeway usage. I live in rural northern Kalifornistan so going anywhere means going 55+ mph down long straight sections of highway.

But anyways, you have a good one. Enjoy riding your high horse, air must be nice up there. Good day.
If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.
- Samuel Adams

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Fred
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Re: Drag pipes and poor performance

Post by Fred »

[quote="vanhalenarmy"]Man Fred, you sure have a history on this forum (and the original IA forum) of being a good ol'fashioned dick. Congratulations are in order. You deserve it, be proud.
/quote]


A friend of mine told me bla bla " .

I was giving you the benefit of my experience with lollipop and how it actually works. If you dont want to do that then it would have been polite to just not do it. It was a lot of work writing that and it was not meant for arrogant dick heads like you that think your bike is great.

Misinterpretation of culture I guess. As much as it may pain you I am a fully professional mechanic but don't let that worry you.

I take it you did not look at the American you tube I gave you.( Still trying to help you) Your bike runs like shit and that is not my problem that you don't know it.

Glad your happy with it but be careful shit bikes are dangerous and you could have accidents.

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Re: Drag pipes and poor performance

Post by dwd58 »

Fred, very informative video.

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Fred
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Re: Drag pipes and poor performance

Post by Fred »

dwd58 wrote:Fred, very informative video.
Thank you very much dwd58,

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Re: Drag pipes and poor performance

Post by Prodigal_Sun »

vanhalenarmy wrote:Man Fred, you sure have a history on this forum (and the original IA forum) of being a good ol'fashioned dick. Congratulations are in order. You deserve it, be proud.
...
But anyways, you have a good one. Enjoy riding your high horse, air must be nice up there. Good day.
He does. You don't. No offense, I'll take the word of someone I know to be full of shit over the word of someone I don't know at all. :hahafinger: At least with Fred I know I can try and follow what he's done and go back if it doesn't work for me the way I want. All you're doing is shitposting about what you claim someone else did for you, but you don't have the first fucking clue what it was. :cheers: come back when you find some respect.
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